In this seventh episode of Women Winning Divorce, Florida Women's Law Group CEO, owner and attorney, Heather Quick talks about mediation. Is mediation required? Is it in person? Is everyone in the same room?
"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.
This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.
Visit us at https://www.womenwinningdivorce.com/ for more resources.
Text us at 904-944-6800 for a copy of Heather's Top 5 Divorce Tips.
If you have questions or a topic you would like Heather to cover, email us at marketing@4womenlaw.com
Women Winning Divorce
Episode 7
What You Need to Know About Mediation in Florida
Julie Morgan:
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week, we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they are facing. Listen in as she discusses issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce. Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan, and I'm joined by your host, Heather Quick. Heather, it is great to see you again.
Heather Quick:
It is great to see you, Julie.
Julie Morgan:
I asked you about this topic a while ago, mediation, because I was wondering ... You kept bringing it up, and like all these topics, they go together. I was like, well, this has to be mandatory because she keeps bringing it up, and it is. So that's the topic today, let's talk about mediation. First of all, what is it?
Heather Quick:
Mediation is a process and it goes across all areas of law. Essentially it breaks down to compromise, but it's facilitated because, the two people who are essentially at adverse sides need help with communication. There are mediators and they are certified by the state of Florida. They've gone through training and are a neutral party. They are area specific, there are family law mediators, civil case mediators, personal injury and medical, so all areas of law. Sometimes they used to practice in that area, so they have that knowledge base not only of the law, but the experience of the courts in those cases and how things go. That mediator is your neutral party who goes back and forth from one to the other, but they're not a message carrier, at least not an effective mediator.
An effective mediator really works to get to know each side, and I think there's such a psychology to it, having done this for so many years and watching great mediators. The ones who are really good, they understand the psychology of people and getting to yes. They're the ones playing the devil's advocate a little bit on one side and on the other, and understanding the law even though they can't advise you. They're not your lawyer. Some people say, "We just want to go to mediation." It's not like that's any great concession. Like I said, we have to. We'll get into it further as we go through as to how it works when you have a lawyer versus not, but it is a wonderful process that can really allow people to have closure and play a part in the final decision making of their divorce.
Julie Morgan:
I see the table at mediation getting ugly.
Heather Quick:
Well, you've probably looked in at some of mine at an earlier date. However, I have tried to become less adversarial, and that does happen. What you're envisioning is a big table and the attorney, the client on one side, the other attorney and their client on the other side, and a mediator. That used to happen years ago, and it really started us all off on the bad foot, I thought. I still agree. Now we start in separate rooms, and we stay in separate rooms.
Julie Morgan:
That's not what I was thinking.
Heather Quick:
What goes on in that breakout room or caucus where it's the mediator and you and your attorney, sometimes we are having a confidential discussion, and the mediator can say, "If you tell me not to repeat this, I won't, otherwise I will take what we discussed and go over there." We'll say, "I want you to tell him this, but don't tell him this, but I want you to know we're willing to move a certain amount, but don't let them know that yet," it’s the psychology of negotiation. It’s not playing games, it's just the psychology of knowing the human psyche. Let's say, if your husband is a narcissist in the typical fashion, there's a way to effectively negotiate so that we win but they think they're winning.
Julie Morgan:
I know I've gotten totally ahead of myself, because we're going to talk about what to expect in mediation, but, oh, boy, I can't wait for you to finish all of that thought. So this is interesting. All righty. So can you go to mediation without an attorney?
Heather Quick:
You can, you can. I think there are probably some cases where that might be a good thing to do. Essentially, if you don't have any assets or children, then you don't have as much to lose, so you can. Two parties can do that. The downfall with that is that the mediator, ethically, he or she cannot advise you as to whether this is a good deal or a bad deal. They can't because they're neutral. Therefore, you're sitting there negotiating, and how do you know if it is a good deal or not. If you don't understand the law and you don't understand your situation, you may or may not really be making a great decision. This is where I caution women. A lot of men will tell their wives, "We're just going to go to a mediator," and the wife's afraid to upset the husband. She doesn't want to push him for financial support, so she listens. I've met with many of these women after the fact, and they've signed a document, and I have nothing nice to say about that, and they made a poor decision, and you can't fix it.
Mediation is wonderful and great, but if you don't know what you're doing or what you're entitled to, don't think that this is going to magically give you that advice. When going through a divorce, if your decisions are based on not upsetting your husband and making him happy, then clearly you're putting his interests above yours. After the divorce and in the future, don't be surprised if he's the one who did much better financially than you did.
Julie Morgan:
Really, you don't need a mediator and an attorney, however, you really do.
Heather Quick:
You really do. What you really need is an attorney, and then we will go to mediation. For example, we have mediators in this area in Northeast Florida, all throughout Florida. Some mediators, now with Zoom, they can handle all kinds of cases. Just like lawyers, some mediators are better than others. Some mediators, based on what we know about our client, we know a mediator might be a personality fit, and/or what our clients told us about their husband or their attorney. There are some mediators that we think would be better for this case, because we have gone to them before. That's an expensive day for our client. They're paying us, the attorney, and they have to share the cost of the mediator. I want it to be productive, that's my goal. If we're going, we're going to be ready, and we're hopeful that we can settle. All of those things are important, who the mediator is, how that's going to help us absolve the case. I find those to be very important decisions.
Julie Morgan:
You named one reason why an attorney really is necessary. It's because you know the mediators, and you can see which one may be better.
Heather Quick:
It's true, for the particular case. Like I said, a lot of them are great, but they might not be great for your particular client. Our clients, they need to trust the mediator too and the process. It's not 100%, but we really do consider it and think about it. How will our client do with this mediator? How do we think their husband will do? I have asked many of our clients before, "Well, your husband, if we pick a female mediator, what do you think? Is he not going to respect them? Are we not going to settle?"
Now do we know whether or not that's true? No. But, you know what, if I think we have a better chance, then I'm going to maybe work with the other attorney to propose maybe a male. Or if we're like, he's going to hate these guys, okay, we may re-think this. Whether we're right or not, I don't know, but we do think about all those things because, again, it's a day where we potentially can settle the case, so we want everything in our favor. Like I was saying, we consider the fact pattern as well as the husband, so it's not just like my client. I may tell my client, "Listen, this attorney may seem more stern. They might not be real touchy-feely or give you a warm fuzzy. Don't worry about it. You don't need that. What I'm telling you is we need them on the numbers. We need them on that directness because we think that's going to be a more effective way." I don't know what goes on in the other room. All I know is that's our experience in similar situations.
Julie Morgan:
Based on what you just said, everything can truly end right there in mediation without having to go to court.
Heather Quick:
Correct, yes, yes. You can see there's a lot of reasons to settle, to avoid that final decision maker who's making the decision based on the information presented.
Julie Morgan:
Does it cost more if you eventually go to court, or is it all the same?
Heather Quick:
Of course it costs more. The longer it goes on, the more you have to go to court, the more litigious and adversarial it is, it's costly. To go to trial, now we need all of the evidence, and usually it takes a full day, sometimes two or three days. Maybe you need experts on the financials. Many times we do have our experts at mediation with us, when we're evaluating a business and we're looking into the alimony. It can be very helpful for the forensic accounting to be there.
Julie Morgan:
So it doesn't have to be just you and your attorney and the mediator. It could be kind of like court, where you're bringing in witnesses maybe.
Heather Quick:
Really, just the financial aspect. We'll have that expert there as needed to help. It helps them with evaluating offers. Otherwise, no, because it is all a confidential process. So you can't have your mom, your dad, your best friend, can't be there.
Julie Morgan:
You know what, I was going to ask you that as well, because I was thinking, if you could possibly bring in those parties, you can bring in another set of support, your support system.
Heather Quick:
Right now we're doing ... We're going to talk about that later, the more virtual mediations. But in the past or historically we're all there at the mediator's office. Husband, attorney are in one room, wife, attorney in the other room. The mediator goes back and forth. Any time they bring family members then they just sit in the waiting room, it's just awkward. It creates some tension sometimes. Both sides have to consent to even them being present. Most of the time, it's not going to be helpful. Sometimes it is, but that one requires consent for anyone else to be privy to what's going on. There are times when that happens, but most of the time, it does not.
Julie Morgan:
You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. So before mediation, what does the attorney need?
Heather Quick:
Before mediation, we are going to need all of the financial documents, because if we're going to make decisions based on your property, assets and liabilities, we need not only the financial affidavit, but we need statements. What's the debt equal to now? Where was it maybe when we filed the divorce? Where is it now? So that we understand how are we going to divide things between the parties? We certainly need pay stubs, and we need current pay stubs. Where we are right now in the first part of the year, well, I still want to see year-end because, remember, we talked about that. What if the big bonus comes in December and they just want to give us three months of pay stubs? We need tax returns. You want many things to get a good financial picture. That is very important as far as documentation.
Many times, when we're talking about children, I will ask the clients, "What do you see as a schedule you would want, that would be great for you and the kids?” Now, again, that may not be what's going to happen, but if I don't know what our clients are thinking, then here I might think this is a great deal, but yet it's nothing compared to what they were thinking. It's really important for the clients to share with us what they want. We ask them because they don't know what to say or what not to say. If we don't ask them what they think about certain things, we're not going to know where they're coming from and/or where there needs to be some education and understanding of the reality of the law, versus maybe what your perception of what's going to happen in the divorce.
Julie Morgan:
That also goes back to the question of what do you want, in addition to the end game, but how are you going to get to that point?
Heather Quick:
Exactly.
Julie Morgan:
You mentioned bank statements and pay stubs, but, also, credit card statements as well, right? Because that's going to tell us expenses.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. It's going to tell us expenses, but also overall debt, because not only are the assets marital, so are the debts. Of course, that is a problem that many times leads to divorce, when somebody's a saver and somebody's a spender. It's not fun when we have to divide it out and they recognize they're on the hook for the spending, and maybe there's nothing to show for it. Again, there are a lot of things that we could go into on that, on liabilities. But, in general, yes, we need to have an understanding of what debt there is, what debt is marital, so that if we're coming to a decision on that, we can do so.
Julie Morgan:
That really leads me to a question. There's some debt that's not marital?
Heather Quick:
Yeah, so student loans. If, let's say, you went to school and you had student loans and then you got married, you've been paying them off during the marriage, but the actual loan itself may not be marital. If you got married and, in the middle, you incurred more student loans, part of those may be marital, part may not. If you had a debt before the marriage and it still exists, then it's not going to be a marital debt to be divided.
Julie Morgan:
That makes sense. I definitely was thinking that student loans possibly ... During the marriage, it's all 50-50, but maybe not.
Heather Quick:
It is, and it used to not be. The law has changed with interpretations. Is that marital or not? If you're thinking in theory, hey, they went to school, and I haven't reaped the benefit of this yet, and yet I'm on the hook for the debt, but they're not making money, but it is marital. Then many times, and it is marital, parents sign for their children's debt for college, or are co-signers in that. You're on the hook, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.
Julie Morgan:
All righty. It's just too many numbers going on, and I'm just thinking, my head hurts. I don't know. That's a lot.
Heather Quick:
It can be, so we don't do it all in one day. At mediation, we do, but we've had time. There's a lot. But, Julie, what you said I think is really important because we are having a conversation about these things that, of course, are very important. I'm not representing you in the divorce and we're in the middle of mediation, and so it's normal to have that feeling just about these conversations, particularly if it's all about your money and/or debt and marriage. For women who are listening, I just think it's important, again, to understand the way they feel about these conversations. Those are normal feelings. It doesn't mean sometimes we don't have to put them off to the side, because we have to get down to business and move on with our life and help you move forward. But to acknowledge that those are normal feelings, just you and I talking about it. I think it's really important you said that because many women listening, that might make them think, oh my gosh, just thinking about this is too much. I'm not going to move forward. Don’t let that stop you because we will get you through that, and you're really better off knowing, like we've talked before.
Julie Morgan:
Another thing I was thinking about, it's not only what is on the pay stub or on the credit card statement or the bank statement. It's also about that other stuff like jewelry and inheritance, property, those things, that has some weight to it. It has to.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. Inheritance is typically non-marital. It is presumed non-marital, but if you use that money to buy a house with your spouse and put your spouse's name on it, then that could be trouble. We've probably talked about this before, and it is something that comes up. It's called co-mingling. We could have a whole show on that at one point, and issues to be aware of and look into. But, yes, understanding inheritance and jewelry ... Sometimes that gets really touchy because you're like, wait, you bought me all this jewelry, it's mine. Well, it's marital, except for the engagement ring because that was bought before marriage. But then if you get an upgrade during the marriage, then that's marital. So you can imagine how that can really create an emotional response because you don't feel like that's just an asset.
Julie Morgan:
Right. I mean, it's creating an emotional response for me, and I'm not even going through this. Wait a minute. So let's take this scenario. What if I got some property as an inheritance and we built a house on that property. How does that work?
Heather Quick:
Now you really want to complicate it, don't you? If you built a house, I guess, if you moved a trailer there that we could drive off, that would be a better situation, but if you go build a house on it and then the house is in both names, that's going to be a problem.
Julie Morgan:
More numbers, right? It's so stressful. Seriously, this is stressful, and I can see someone sitting at the table saying, "I just don't know what to do at this point," but, I guess, that's what the back and forth is about, helping them come to the right conclusion for them.
Heather Quick:
Right, that's what the whole ... It is a lot. That's why, as we talk through it, if you don't have an attorney there to help organize it and talk about it and help you see where it is ... I mean, the spreadsheets we create to prepare for mediation are a lot. Then we also work through with the client so that they have a good understanding of the assets and how we think they're going to be treated, marital, non-marital, valuation, all throughout the process.
Julie Morgan:
At this point before you even get to the table, that's when you talk about the goals of mediation. We've talked about the inheritance, property, jewelry. You should have already spoken to your attorney about, okay, what do you really want as far as this investment property or this jewelry is concerned? What is your end game in reference to all these things?
Heather Quick:
Oh, absolutely, yes. If not, then that's going to be a really long day, because you haven't, one, discussed it, which is important, and then, two, mentally prepared for which way it could go because you haven't had the discussion with your attorney. Your attorney should be asking you all of these things, because you don't know what you don't know. I don't hold that really to the client. I think that's the attorney's responsibility. If you're educating yourself and you're listening to this, no information is too much. You need to share with your attorney. We tell our clients that all the time. They're like, "Well, I don't know if you need to know this or that." Let's hear it all, and we'll tell you, no, I don't need to hear about that. But the inheritance you got last year, yes, or the one he just got and hasn't told anybody about, that's important too.
Julie Morgan:
If you come to the table with no attorney and possibly he has an attorney and then you didn't think about these things, well, then that right there, that's a bad situation.
Heather Quick:
You're at a disadvantage.
Julie Morgan:
That also goes back to, if you end up signing something and then after the fact someone comes to your office and they say, "Okay, I feel like I signed something that wasn't quite right. Help me out with this," then what happens?
Heather Quick:
It is very unlikely that we are going to be able to do anything with that document, because you've signed it. You're an adult in a contract, and a mediator was there, and they're going to say you were competent, and you understood what you were signing. If They wouldn't allow you to sign it if they didn't think you were competent and understood it, and your understanding might be like, I understand the words, but I don't have an overall understanding of maybe how this affects me. It's very difficult to challenge it. It can't be overturned. It may be modified, but that's going to have to be in the future due to a change, not just because you recognize right now this is a bad deal.
Julie Morgan:
That would be a change possibly in job or any income coming in. That's when that change could possibly take place?
Heather Quick:
Yes, however those things have to not be anticipated though, Julie. I don't want somebody to think, well, I did that, but now I'm going to go get a different job next month, or I've been looking for this job. There are legal standards by which you can modify, and you can't modify everything, there's only some things. It would not be correct for me to just say as a blanket, if things change, then you can modify it. I disagree with that concept that, well, if we don't like it, you can go back to court. I think that is very bad advice by any attorney to a client. Really, let's do the best we can now and hopefully you won't have to go back. There may be things, your children are young and incomes can change and there may be changes in support in the future, because that's just life. I don't think it's a good legal strategy at all. It's just somebody not working hard enough to say, "Well, you can always go back and modify it." That's just a false statement.
Julie Morgan:
All right, So mediation. There's so much to talk about. You know what, when I thought about this topic, I thought, oh, it's not going to be that much to discuss, but it really is. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. So, Heather, we talked about this just a little bit in segment one of the show, as far as what to expect in mediation, just in case someone missed it. Let's talk about this. My thought whenever you say mediation is, okay, you have a long table. You and your attorney, you're sitting on one side. They're sitting on the other. Those are the people over there. Then you have the mediator at the head of the table. But you said that's not the way it works.
Heather Quick:
Right, most of the mediations I am in, we don't do that anymore because it's not productive for them to be in the same room and look at each other. Even if it hasn't been terribly adversarial or even adversarial at all, that just creates a lot of emotion. I mean, divorce is, it's difficult for both parties. We're here, and everybody knows it's a big day, sometimes just seeing the other person is hard. I'm just going to say from my perspective and my clients, it's a lot, sometimes to have to see him. It can be sadness, or it can be anger, being like, oh, my God, look at him. He went and got a spray tan. He's lost weight, colored his hair, and/or maybe that's what our client did, and that makes the husband mad. It is just easier if we start separated. I'm glad you like that. Sometimes I throw this in, Julie, and I never really think I'm funny, but you make me think that maybe I am.
Julie Morgan:
He got a spray tan and lost some weight. Oh, man, I like it. But, I mean, seriously, I didn't think about that. You could get angry because you're looking better without me than you did with me.
Heather Quick:
I've been begging you for years to do this or do that, and now you do it when we’re not together? Or they're on Tinder and all these dating sites, and it's just a lot of emotions. That might make you feel like I am not feeling like I want to negotiate, so now it's we've got to work backwards to get to where we're ready to end this. It’s hard to take emotion out of it because it is your life, but you can see that is an example. Those are human reactions that are completely normal. I don't fault anybody for thinking that. It goes for the husband too, I'm sure. I'm not in that room, but I'm sure. When the wife comes in looking like a superstar, they're not making them feel any better about the situation either.
Julie Morgan:
Right, right. One more random one, you lost the gut I told you to lose a long time ago. Next, it doesn’t have to be in-person. You mentioned this earlier. It doesn't have to be in-person, it can be on Zoom.
Heather Quick:
Right, now that is a creation and a result of COVID. Prior to that, they were all in-person, and you had to get special court permission to not do it that way. Then it was by phone because the world didn't really adapt, or the legal field had not adapted into this technology. Now since that time, we can use Zoom and many mediators like it. I personally don't. But many mediators will never probably mediate in person again, and that's unfortunate because the human dynamic is lost. Many times, we're in mediation for 8, 12, 15 hours. It's just a long time. You'd be shocked how engaged that you can stay even via Zoom, but it's just a long day. I do think it’s most effective all in-person. What we do right now is our clients may come to our office and then we're together on Zoom with the mediator, and then the other attorney and their client are there. I've done one in-person, and so has my staff since COVID. There are a couple mediators in town who are doing them in-person now, but I think they like it. Unfortunately, I don't think it's, I can't say it's not as effective. It has been as effective. It's just unfortunate. It's just a really long day. I don't love it. I get Zoom fatigue.
Julie Morgan:
You said 8, 10, 12, 15 hours. I mean, seriously? It really takes that long?
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
I'm thinking it's possibly because the mediator is really going step-by-step. We're going to talk about custody. We're going to talk about alimony. We're going to talk about this. They're really going down the line. Is that why everything's separate?
Heather Quick:
Yes, because we try to handle things individually. Julie, sometimes it can be hard. It can be hard on the individual, so it's not always that there's a lot of financial aspects that take a long time to get through. Sometimes it is the emotion of the parties that make it difficult for them to give much up, so there is back-and-forth and back-and-forth. There is a part of that that can be very healthy for the parties because a trial is not going to be like that. If it's something that's going to be talked about through questioning, you don't get to talk about how you feel about a lot of things and what they did wrong and why they need to do this. There is a very cathartic part of the mediations where the mediators do understand that you kind of need to get out. It's very healthy if you can let them get it out, and not in an angry way or anything, but just kind of venting. Sometimes for either party, that allows them then to feel like, OK, I've said it, now let's move on and try to make some decisions.
It is shocking when I think of how long sometimes it takes, but I've been there, and it goes quickly when you're in it and your adrenaline is pumping, and you're trying to think and come up with compromises. Then it may take quite a bit of time to draft the 30-page document that you've all agreed upon. Then you've got to review all that. It's a long process.
Julie Morgan:
That does make sense, because in court they're like, "We only have a certain period of time. We've got to do this because we have other cases." But if you're sitting at a table in different rooms, you're able to get out some emotions that you may not have even realized you had at that point. You know what I mean?
Heather Quick:
Absolutely, and that's a really good way to put it because you just don't even know sometimes that you felt that way, or you didn't think it would affect you in this way to be making these decisions because you don't know what you don't know. It can just be that that's the way it is sometimes. So for most people, it really ... Even if I think it's going to be a shorter mediation, that's probably just eight hours if we're lucky. Sometimes we set mediation for two days in a row, when there's a lot of assets, because we know there's going to be not only a lot of decisions made, but then that brings in emotions.
I was explaining it this way to someone the other day. If you are not in the habit of making a lot of decisions in your day-to-day life, that's a new experience for you. In my life as a business owner, I make a lot of decisions. I have my own way with which I make a lot of decisions quickly, even with my family. If I'm going to pick a paint color, show me three. I'm going to pick one, and it's going to take me less than five minutes. Some people, it might take them days or weeks, and they have a very hard time with that one decision. I think, in a lot of ways, I have a lot of practice in making decisions. During that day of mediation, you can imagine how overwhelming it can be. If you are not in the practice of making a lot of decisions and we've got to make a lot of decisions today, it takes time. It’s not something that you're used to doing. It's not a muscle you're used to using. Every decision seems fatal, it’s the rest of your life, and then, what if this, what if that, what if that? It's very difficult to answer all of those questions. For some people, they can quickly decide, but most can’t. Again, there's an emotional part, psychological part where people have to get through it.
Julie Morgan:
I guess, that's why mediation, I mean, this is just my guess, why mediation is required, or one of the reasons possibly.
Heather Quick:
I think it's required to try to reduce the case load of the judges. However, it truly is better for those individuals who are able to come to a decision. You at least had a part. I mean, you go to trial, it is he said, she said, and there is an independent person making a decision, who has done their best by hearing the evidence presented, but you aren't part of that decision making process any longer. So this is your life. Who wants to give control to the state of Florida on your life? But it takes both parties to do that, so it is a good process in state. Then if you don't succeed ... You can be at mediation, and we don't have an agreement. You have now understood the process even more. You understand your husband's side and where they're coming from, and I do think it prepares our clients a little bit better for having to go to trial just mentally, and maybe how stuck on one decision or another their spouse may be. At the end of the day, I think 80% of our cases settle at mediation, and maybe even more. It's certainly a better way, a better way for people to go through this process. Even if it's a long, drawn out day, it's still better to have a part of that decision.
Julie Morgan:
If everything is settled at mediation, do you still have to go to court just for something quick?
Heather Quick:
Yes, but there are exceptions to that. Sometimes the questions have already been taken care of so you don't have to go to court, and we can just submit the document to the judge to sign. If everything is agreed upon then it can be the final of everything. It doesn't mean you're divorced that day. You're not divorced until the day the judge signs it, but, yes, it gives you closure.
Julie Morgan:
I can only imagine, wow. This also, it seems like it helps you stay active in your case in order for you to get to that final decision, knowing that you have to go into this room, and you have to really hash it all out. It helps you stay active with it, because otherwise, I mean, that wouldn't be good for you not to be active with your own case.
Heather Quick:
True, True, true. Yes, because then you're an observer. This is your life. Even if you've been an observer of your life during your marriage, it's time for you to be active, because you're the one moving forward. That's why, again, therapy can be so important, in the beginning of the process, to get you strong enough to recognize it's time for you to take an active role.
Julie Morgan:
But, Heather, you're my therapist.
Heather Quick:
Now you're making me laugh. Now, Julie, I am not trained or licensed as a therapist, but I have a lot of experience. I generally charge more than a therapist does on an hourly basis, and I am looking at your legal advantage. I can't remove myself from that, so I am not the best person as a therapist. I think that our clients do much better with that on the side, in conjunction with us, because we want somebody who's really focused on your mental health, because we are so focused on your legal success and your advantage. There might be a time where you're not really able to handle that, so you have to have that addressed. But I do. I have had a lot of experience, and I always say that I am not the best person to be your therapist, because I'm also so opinionated and biased. You need some mental health professional who can help be a little bit more therapeutic.
Julie Morgan:
Oh, I'm kind of scared to ask this. Anything else you want to add?
Heather Quick:
No. I think we have given plenty of opinions and information today.
Julie Morgan:
Thank you for listening to Women Winning Divorce. We hope you found information to help you navigate your divorce. If you like our show, please take the time to subscribe and provide a five-star review. If you need more information, please visit our website at WomenWinningDivorce.com, where you will find previous episodes and other helpful content. Join us next week as we continue our journey of Women Winning Divorce.