Women Winning Divorce with Heather B. Quick, Esq.

#6-Negotiating Alimony in Florida

Episode Summary

** *Alimony Has Been Reformed Since This Episode Has Been Recorded*** In this sixth episode of Women Winning Divorce, Florida Women's Law Group CEO, owner and attorney, Heather Quick talks more about alimony. She explains the importance of the financial affidavit, whether alimony can be negotiated and whether infidelity has any impact on alimony.

Episode Notes

"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.  

 

This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.  

 

Visit us at https://www.womenwinningdivorce.com/ for more resources.

Text us at 904-944-6800 for a copy of Heather's Top 5 Divorce Tips.  

 

If you have questions or a topic you would like Heather to cover, email us at  marketing@4womenlaw.com

Episode Transcription

Julie Morgan:     

Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they're facing. Listen in as she discusses issues, including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of Women Winning Divorce. Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan, and I'm joined by your host, Heather Quick. Hi, Heather, how you doing?

Heather Quick:

I'm great, Julie, how are you today?

Julie Morgan:

I'm doing well.  I mean, I looked at the topic and I said, ooh, part one was awesome. So, part two is going to be really good.

Heather Quick:

Oh yeah. It gets juicy now for sure.

Julie Morgan:

Yes, definitely.  I know the listeners are like, what are you talking about? We're talking about alimony part two. First of all, let's revisit. Just so we can get a clear definition. What is alimony?

Heather Quick:

Alimony is spousal support. After divorce, the overall goal of alimony is to really help the spouse that hasn't been earning as much, basically not go in the poor house. We went through so many of the different scenarios. I could talk about alimony for probably weeks on end, and just like really narrow it down. Some people would find it interesting and then on some parts would be like, this is ridiculously boring.  You start with, how much does the one spouse have the ability to pay and then let's look at the other spouse for need.

We talked about a lot of it last time, like length of marriage and things like that. There are so many factors go into it. Many people have the belief, not totally a misconception, that I must have the same standard of living and that's what alimony does, but it doesn't always work quite that way. This was my standard of living and true, that plays a part, but really we're looking at need and ability. As we go through it, you'll hear me talk about that, but that's really what we're looking at, need and ability.

Julie Morgan:

You said that, and that's exactly what I think of when I think of alimony is a standard of living. It needs to be exactly the same.

Heather Quick:

Yes, and that's generally impossible. If we're being frank about this, if it's just one income that supported one household and now it's going to support two, neither party is going to have the same standard of living. However, your standard of living is absolutely relevant to your needs so, it does play a part. It is in the statute. There may be cases when there is an excess of money then that is easier to do. But generally speaking, there's going to be financial hardship on both sides in order to make alimony happen. When we talk about need and if one spouse has not worked or doesn't have the ability to work, that's where we really look into that need.

Julie Morgan:

Yes, if you'd like to listen to alimony part one, you can go to our website, womenwinningdivorce.com. One of the things that was brought up in part one was a financial affidavit. Does everyone have to fill out one of these when getting a divorce?

Heather Quick:

Yes, it is required by the statute and it is one of the like most painful things for most people to complete. They procrastinate and it can be overwhelming, but truly it's a budget. Some people hear that go, I don't want to do a budget, but really if we condense it down, that is what it is, a budget.  It can be hard if you just don't know all the numbers. We work very diligently, our paralegals are extremely trained, well trained and well educated. They work with our clients to create that financial affidavit. Sometimes we need to go to bank statements to really look at what is being spent because they have no idea. Mostly I see extremes. Most people either are, they go crazy, I spend this much at the grocery store, or they really lowball it.

That means they have absolutely no idea. I talk about that, because that's on there, how much do you spend on food per month? Meals inside the home, meals outside the home. I know for some people they're like, wow, I went through my bank statement and I didn't realize I ate out so much or I spent so much money out. It's an important exercise, and it's so very important when you are looking to receive alimony or if you have exposure to pay alimony. It is, to me, the single most important thing that gets filed and most individuals, they do a terrible job on it. 

Julie Morgan:

Has someone ever come in and you say, okay, so this is one of the first steps that we need to do. We need to fill out this financial affidavit. We need to look at the budget. They look at it and they say, "Well, you know what? That's a lot. I know I'm not going to be able to keep the standard of living that I've had. So, you know what, let's pause."

Heather Quick:

I am certain that has happened over the years, because it's overwhelming. And that's scary. We've talked about that throughout our show. The fear of the unknown is sometimes enough to really paralyze you from taking action, because you at least know the situation you're in and you need money for groceries, for gas, for the basics. It is, it can be overwhelming and scary.  That’s what we certainly help our clients with, if they're overwhelmed and like, I can't move forward on this. If they want to pause it, we can do that. Of course that has to be both sides. We also work through the options and that's when we talk about the different types of alimony. Maybe you can go earn money, let's really explore that. Let's explore what maybe we can do to help you supplement, because we can all recognize where your cutbacks may have to be made.

Julie Morgan:

I look at this and this could also be something where someone says, you know what, I'm going to drag my feet with this so we can kind of extend this process because I don't want to go through it. Is there a deadline to fill this out?

Heather Quick:

Yes, in theory. The law requires 45 days from when we file. Unfortunately, many times we have to go to court to compel the other side to fill it out, because they have so many reasons why they can’t. It is often the husband and there's plenty of money and he certainly has plenty of time, they just don't want to do it. Unfortunately, many attorneys can’t get their clients to do it. The good news is the law backs you up, if we have to take you to court to make you do what the rules say you're supposed to do in a timely fashion, the court is supposed to award attorney's fees for that particular action. The rules are there to require people to follow them and play fair.That's why the judges are there for when they don't.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Yeah, I figured that this would be something that people would try to draw out as much as they can. You know what I mean?

Heather Quick:

Indeed.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah. So, let's talk about how long this form is, because I'm thinking depending on the amount of money that's brought into the household, sometimes it could be a short form and sometimes it could be a longer form. Because more money, possibly more expenses. So, is there a difference there?

Heather Quick:

There is, if you earn less than $50,000, you fill out a short form. If it's more than that, it's a long form. I will tell you that the long form is what we always use, we only use the long form because it has all the lines for all the things that you may not think about. The worst thing to do would be to go into a divorce situation and you really haven't been educated and advised on what it costs you to live. Whether the money is there or not, you need to be clear on what your situation's going to be. The short form doesn't include things like dry cleaning or prescriptions or over-the-counter medication or hair and nails or something as simple as magazine subscriptions or newspaper.

It might seem small, but those things, they add up and you'll hear people say, yeah, I don't know where the money goes. Well, it goes somewhere in this comprehensive, bigger form, it covers so much because it has a line for everything. If you go to the bankand you see that what you spend on, what do you spend on your pets?  There's of course, a whole form area for the children, but a lot of people spend a lot of money on their pets. If there's not an area for that when they're really thinking about expenses, they're going to miss that and not have an adequate and sufficient information upon which to move forward on their divorce.

Julie Morgan:

To me that just kind of reminds me of whenever you pay your taxes, always itemize. That's what people say. Hey, you know what? I am not an accountant, so that's not what I'm telling you to do, but that just kind of reminds me of that.

Heather Quick:

Exactly.

Julie Morgan:

Secondly, so when we're thinking about this, that means I need a list of documents. I mean, I need everything that I can get my hands on. Tell me what are some of those things? You've mentioned some of them, but how comprehensive is this list?

Heather Quick:

For the basic disclosure, meaning this is what is required, they call it mandatory. That list is rather comprehensive because it is a general list. It’s going to have a lot of stuff on it, including your tax returns, your pay stubs, bank statements, credit cards, retirement accounts. Julie it's a lot, but it's important. The key for any woman about to embark on this process is to know that it doesn't have to be overwhelming, and it does not need to be scary. You just have to get it done and that is what your lawyer and their staff does. Our paralegals help them and we explain how we get the information and then we go through it.

Sometimes it's a situation where, oh, my husband has everything and of course there no paper statements to the house. That creates again, that fear that, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? I'll tell you, we do this all the time. We help guide our clients, you're on that bank account, go to the bank and ask for six months of statements.  Our staff can go through it with you and highlight expenses and we come up with at least a starting estimate. The financial affidavit is something that typically we amend as we get more information, as things change. When we start the process, most people are living together. We're looking at this financial affidavit for what do you need during the divorce, that temporary alimony we talked about last time.

As we go through the process, we're looking at your future. You may not remain in that same house, you may not want to, it may not make sense financially. Now we have to look at what's it going to cost for you to live on your own? What is your future going to look like? That is a very important part of this financial affidavit in the divorce process from my perspective, is planning for your future. We know what it costs right now, but I really want to think about where you are going to be in a year, three years from now, and let's think that through so that we have these expenses and they're going to be adequate to provide you the support you need.

Julie Morgan:

For some women, is that the first time that they may even go to the bank and get the bank statement.

Heather Quick:

Yes, and there's no shame in that, it just is what it is. I will tell you, Julie, again, because this is, it hasn't been that long, and we can both remember when all statements and everything came to the mailbox. I mean, you and I are young, of course, however we know it wasn't that long ago, but it doesn't happen as often now. There's no shame in not having your statements.  It's like, listen, that's why everybody needs a password list of every password their spouse has and for every account, because if something happens to them, how are you going to even have access? It is difficult and that is a barrier that is real. Like I said, there's no shame in that, which of course, many women feel very embarrassed by, and it's nothing to be embarrassed by about at all.

Julie Morgan:

And your staff walks them through that and helps them understand that this is not something to be embarrassed about.  We are going to start right here and work our way through it.

Heather Quick:

Exactly, I mean, because that's the only way through, you don't get over it, you just get through it and you have to start somewhere. It’s one thing at a time and let's get through this and understand, even though it seems scary or overwhelming, it's so empowering to know. What we generally see is a shift and what I want women to know is it you're going to start feeling better, because now you know.  Don't you want to know, even if something terrible is about to happen financially. Some people might say, no, thank you, I’ll keep the blinders on, but I think most people would like to know.

Julie Morgan:

Knowledge is power. Yes and yes, both Heather and I are young. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, when we left off, we said we were going to talk about the importance of the financial affidavit. We've defined the financial affidavit, basically a budget, but how will the courts use this financial affidavit? What do they use it for exactly?

Heather Quick:

It's filed with the court as evidence.  We use it to determine your alimony needs. Now child support is a formula, but there are expenses for your children that are on the financial affidavits, so they're relevant, absolutely. Unfortunately, what you spend on your child doesn't equal what the formula for child support will be, but the court is going to rely on the financial affidavit to determine alimony. Bon the payer, if the husband's going to pay, they're going to look at their income and then we look at, if it is the wife, what is her need. The only way to establish need is the expenses and the amount of money that you need to live.

Julie Morgan:

Let's say, and you mentioned this in the first segment of this show, let's say the wife decides not to remain in the home where they've been living and she decides to move somewhere else. Obviously it's important to know, wouldn't it be important for her to do that sooner rather than later so you know that expense so you can put that in the financial affidavit?

Heather Quick:

That one really depends. Let's just say, I don't want to live there with him while we're going through this divorce and he says, he's not leaving. Okay, and I do hear that a lot. Number one, if you're in danger, you feel threatened, then of course your safety is first. However, if you are going to go and sign a lease or put yourself on the line for some expenses, we need to know what you're going to be able to get first. Don't go and obligate yourself to new expenses if you don't have a court order saying what you're going to receive. 

If there are children, I think you should not do anything without consulting your attorney. Again, we want to look at so many things and leaving the home with the children or without the children and where are you going? There's so much to it beyond just the financials, but the financials of course are very important. That is one issue, don't do it without talking to your attorney, so that we can really assess and say what the pros and cons of this are before you do it. Many women are like, well, this is what I'm doing. Well, okay. These are reasons to do it, reasons not to do it, but if you're going to do it, hey, I told you don't. Now you'll know, rather than saying, "Oh, Heather, why don't you tell me X, Y, Z could happen?" We'll tell you now and then you can make that choice. I would say, don't go rush out and get a new place.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. You just mentioned to make sure you check in with your attorney about this, but really any financial question, any financial decision, it sounds like, you need to check with your attorney about that before you do it.

Heather Quick:

Oh, absolutely. Because we're in the middle of the divorce and everything's under a microscope and things can be looked at in so many different ways. That's just the reality of it. Be smart and communicate with your attorney, who is the advisor that you have hired to advise you and to strategize with you on this situation. You and your attorney should be having talks about your future and your goals.  But if they haven't, then you need to make sure they're aware, because we don't, as your attorney, we don't know everything unless you tell us. We certainly don't talk to you every day, you don't need to talk to us every day, but on big financial things that are coming up, you should let us know.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah. Something you just mentioned, remember you hired us, you're paying us money for this. So, it would be good to use the services.

Heather Quick:

Well, and if you make a bad decision, it's going to be more costly for us to try to get you out of it. Now we're litigating something that if you had asked us and, or listened to what we said, we might not have to deal with that. Sometimes people just, it's divorce and it is challenging and completely rational, intelligent people, make decisions sometimes that aren't that rational.

Julie Morgan:

Yes. Whether you're going through a divorce or not, let me tell you. So, let's talk about assets and hiding them or lying about these things. That's not good, right? I already know the answer to that one. I, of course, I have to ask you, that's not good, right, Heather?

Heather Quick:

That's right, Julie, you are so perceptive, and you are correct. Don't do it, the financial affidavit has the list of assets on there and liabilities, and it is signed under oath. If you lie, then your credibility is lost with the court. Also, if you're trying to inflate a bunch of things that we can't back up, that's not a good idea. The most common, Julie, and it cracks me up every time, our wives, are like, he's lying on this. You made me spend all this time on this financial affidavit to make sure it's right and this is all a lie. I tell them all the time, that's fine with me, because we will expose them as a liar in front of the judge, because I tend to expect them to lie.

The favorite lie men is to put their salary, but they don't list their bonus. The bonus that they've received every year for 20 years. They will say, well, it's not guaranteed, yet they have received it every year.  They think they're so smart, they're going to outsmart everybody. Like we're not going to see it on the tax return and pay stubs and everything and attribute that money to you. But that's a very, very common one. I've heard it once, heard it a million times with a man on the bonus. Well, that's not guaranteed. I mean how? You've received it for the past 10, 15 years, but this year you don't know.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah, right. Wow. Okay. So, let me ask you this. Are there any penalties? Let's say the man lies. What are the penalties for this, if any?

Heather Quick:

I wish. There are no penalties. I wish we could charge him with perjury. Trust me, I have thought about it before.

Julie Morgan:

No penalties?

Heather Quick:

The court is going to, and the judges probably expect that everybody's going to lie. I mean, I expect them to lie. I'm shocked when they tell the truth, frankly, because I've never seen the judge do anything except order the money or say I disagree with you. I really haven't, unfortunately, which isn't to say, we prove that the money is there and our client wins, because she's going to get the support. That's really the extent, I mean, some of the penalties, there are so many things that I would say, like the court should make them pay more of the fees, because they've basically lied and drawn out litigation rather than being straightforward, but…

Julie Morgan:     Okay.

Heather Quick:

If it were really bad, I have seen the judges put somebody in jail. So, I see that as a positive. That's really more not paying, but also lying about ability to pay and stuff like that and judges certainly have that power to put them in jail. That has most definitely happened, but with your financial affidavit, and I think that's where sometimes our clients get a little bit upset, because they're like, "Why doesn't the other side take it as seriously?" Again, I mean, they just are lazy or they think they're going to get away with not disclosing their income. Eventually it all comes out.

I think the rule, the best rule is to be honest and have integrity, particularly when you are presenting documents that the court will consider as evidence. You're always going to be better off for doing that because you'll know it's correct. You won't feel, or be made to feel as though you're lying by the other attorney, because you know you're not. Usually if somebody's going to lie and try to hide stuff, they don't care if they're exposed as not being truthful. The courts do care, and they may talk to them sternly and then they're going to have to split the money that's there and pay the alimony.

Julie Morgan:

What if the wife knows that they're hiding something, can the court subpoena documents?

Heather Quick:

Yes, your attorney will. The judge isn't going to do anything for you as far as subpoena anything but your attorney will, yes.

Julie Morgan:

The attorney.

Heather Quick:

We subpoena documents to show and to prove the assets. We subpoena the pay stubs and bank accounts so that we can clearly see the money coming in.

Julie Morgan:

Now, when we think about money going out and I believe this is something that you mentioned in a previous show, don't look at just one month, you need to look at a lot of months. What would be typical for as far as the expenses are concerned? How long do you look at?

Heather Quick:

I think six months can be a good reflection, I think that at least gets a good starting point. Your electric bill is going to be higher the months where you're running the AC more or than others, so, just take an average. There are going to be some expenses that really don't fluctuate, then many times with expenses they can fluctuate. Some people are in seasonal businesses, so if you just look at say March and April of a car salesperson's pay stub, that may not look as great as August, September or the fourth quarter.

Now I'm making that up, because I do not know the highs and lows, except I do know it tends to be pretty high towards the fourth quarter, but that's an example of a job that's certainly going to fluctuate. They know when the trends are, and same with a lot of different sales and management jobs. Some jobs they are going to get bonuses and their big bonus comes in the first quarter of the year for the previous year. Every industry and fluctuates and differentiates, so you're going to want to understand how that is on what those expenses or income may be. Those fluctuations that may require you to really look at 12 months. Now we, as the attorneys, are going to really analyze the income of your spouse, as well as you, because if you have income, we need to know, is it fluctuating?

Say a teacher who elects just to be paid during the school year versus all year round. We need to know how you have that because a financial affidavit is a snapshot of one month, so it's going to be an average. We're going to look at a lot of things like that. Also, summer camp for kids, sometimes summer care is really expensive, but you don't have it all year round. There's a lot of those situations that can be an example.

Julie Morgan:

Random thought, Heather you know all of the business. You know everything, you know what I mean? It's just everything about that particular client, because I mean, really you need to know in order to support them in the way that they need to be supported. So, yeah.

Heather Quick:

Absolutely. We do, we do.

Julie Morgan:

So, do the courts take into account, let's say if someone, if the wife has a medical condition, disability, or if they're close to retiring, do they take all of that into account?

Heather Quick:

Absolutely. It does, because part of the law is that is income going to be imputed to you? If you have never worked, if you can't work, so many things come into play. If you're close to retirement, well, are there retirement assets? Do we need to look at that for income for both parties? Or social security? That's when the judge isn't following what your financial advisor may tell you about taking your social security. They may say, "Hey, you can take it now, you got to take it. You have to supplement your income."

If you're disabled, they're going to look at why are you disabled and are you receiving social security disability? If yes, then that's going to meet some of your financial needs. If you have always been a stay-at-home mom and don't have an education or no work history outside the home, the law is going to require them to look at if they impute income to you? All of that is relevant. Many times, experts are hired on that issue alone, which is to determine if you could work, not that actually you would get hired, but if there are jobs that you could do.

Julie Morgan:

Yes, a lot to take into consideration. Wow. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, negotiating alimony, something I thought about one of the examples that you used in the first show about alimony. If you guys want to listen to that, I encourage you to do so. You can go to womenwinningdivorce.com. One of the examples that you use is let's say the person is making $5,000 a month. You'd think I can get 4,000 of that? Maybe, no, probably not. Okay.

Heather Quick:

Probably not. I wish, if I could, I'd get it for and let him have nothing.  The reality is it's probably not going to work out that way. It's not going to unfortunately be 80% of what he makes or is that 90, but regardless. Definitely my goal. But I always tell people, that's not going to happen.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah, we have to be realistic, right? Set expectations.

Heather Quick:

It's difficult, I understand. I really understand where our clients are coming from and that's why we have to let them know, this is where realistically we're going to end up. It's part of, again, preparing yourself to know and not being blindsided.

Julie Morgan:

So, when is alimony negotiated? Is that where mediation comes in?

Heather Quick:

Yes, certainly when we're at mediation, which I think we will talk about in a future episode, mediation is required. When you're there, everything's on the table to be negotiated. If we have to go to court, the judge is going to hear evidence from the testimony and documents and they are going to make a decision based on the information they have in the evidence. There's not really a lot of creativity, because the courts don't have the time and that's not the purpose when you're at a trial or hearing. The purpose is to make a decision on the facts based on the law. Yes, during mediation alimony can be negotiated.

Julie Morgan:

This also means this is a time when we just gave that example, you're not going to get 80% of it. So, you need to be flexible and you need to understand what's going to happen.

Heather Quick:

Yes, the best thing we can do for our clients, using our experience and knowing what we know about the case and the financials knowing that spot of the middle to compromise, because when you go to mediation, you're not getting your best day in court. Now if we go to court, maybe we do great and we get more than we thought, more than maybe we would've settled for, but that's a little bit of risk or you get less than you expected. That's where you want to have an idea going into mediation of a range of, this is the lowest I'll accept, and this is where we're going to start for negotiation purposes.

We will advise our clients and sometimes it's saying that's a bad deal and we're not doing it. We have to tell our clients you're going to do better in front of a judge. He is not willing to negotiate, he's being greedy.  I use that word greedy, because that's the way I think it is, I want more for me, I'm not going to pay. You're not going to do well in front of the court, because you have unrealistic expectations as far as what the law is and your exposure, particularly for men paying alimony. That is a frequent case we go to trial on, because men don't want to pay it.

You’re going to go to court where the case may very well call for a permanent alimony. In mediation, maybe there's room for us to negotiate on that and maybe we would settle for less than permanent. We'd settle for something else with some other concessions.  They may want it non-modifiable, meaning you can't change it, even if the needs go up or his income goes up. Those are things that could be negotiated, but that's not going to happen with the court. They're not going to say that, that you can modify it. I know I probably just brought up a lot of different situations all within one sentence. The main thing to take out of this is there are ways to be creative during mediation.

Our goal is Women Winning Divorce, we figure out what you want, because if we understand your goals as our client, that's how we win. We help you set your goals. It's not necessarily about making him lose, because that doesn't feel great. It's more about making you win. What do you want? What are your main goals? This is a really good example, Julie, and I know I've said it before because this is something I say often. Okay, we're going through this divorce, but you are in love, love, love with someone else. True love. You know you're going to marry that person. Well let's not waste months and years and lots of money to get you permanent alimony. Permanent alimony is going to go away when you get married, come clean to your attorney.

It’s foolish on your part to not share that with us. I don't care, I'm not going to judge you. Our attorneys are not going to judge you, but maybe we need to move around, negotiate on that, because although you may be eligible for that, you have told me that this is your plan. In that case winning for you looks different than for another client who it might mean permanent alimony.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. So, you know when I say something like, okay, I have questions. Okay. So, something you almost said, you said years, is this a process that can take years?

Heather Quick:

It can, it can.

Julie Morgan:

Oh my goodness.

Heather Quick:

I certainly have been in cases that have lasted multiple years and usually there's a lot of different circumstances and things that intervene. I don't think in anyone's best interest to be involved in litigation in this process for so long. It makes it very difficult for you to go on with your life. That being said, we only control part of the process, not even half the process, because there's the other attorney on the other side. Then there's the judges that have a lot of control and if they won't schedule things, and that has happened.  We can reflect on what happened with COVID and then the delay that has caused.

Sometimes towards the end of the year, the judges don't set anything and people just have to wait and judges won’t make a decision. People just have to wait and as your attorney, it's very frustrating, because our job is to help you and move it forward. Sometimes there are parts of the system that just are a constraint and we are unable to change that for the clients. Arguing and arguing about things and having a lot of litigation coupled with calendaring can cause things to go on for years.

Julie Morgan:

That puts your life on hold. That just, it's-

Heather Quick:

It does.

Julie Morgan:

It stops everything.

Heather Quick:

It does and it's certainly nothing I would wish for anybody at all. Sometimes we need more time to get to discovery and sometimes they want it over. It's like, we've got to have the information, financial information necessary to make the best decisions for you. The only ones that benefit over longer litigation, I guess are the attorneys, if they're getting paid. Otherwise, it just doesn't, it's not healthy for the family, it's very disruptive. I think it's really important to try and move cases along as quickly as we can, which isn't that quick in the legal system, but it's important for people to move on with their life. 

Julie Morgan:

Another thing that you mentioned, which I thought was interesting and it feels like this is possibly the first question that you may ask a potential client. What do you want? Is that one of the first questions you ask them? What do you want, what are you looking for? What's your end game?

Heather Quick:

We do and we continue to ask that, because so many people might not have ever thought about it. They don't even know, I mean, I want to be financially secure, I want a place of my own, I want the kids to have this or that. I want to know I'll be okay in retirement. They may not have the absolute specifics, but we start on a larger scale and go from there. Sometimes, Julie, they haven't ever really thought about it. It evolves, but it is important, because if you don't even think about it, then you don’t know.

A lot of times no one actually tried to help them consider their future. Then you may have ideas, but if you're not able to communicate that or there's not an opportunity to communicate that with your attorney, then you're also not going to be where you want to be at the end of this. It's very important, as you begin this process and all during it, to look ahead at your future. That's healthy, because as you're going through the divorce, like we said, and not getting over it, we're getting through it. If you know there's this end of the tunnel and that light is where I'm going and that makes this worth it. Mentally it is just so much better and healthier.

Julie Morgan:

Oh my. So, what if a spouse was having an affair? Does that affect alimony?

Heather Quick:

No, not really. I can't ...

Julie Morgan:

What?

Heather Quick:

I can't see an instance.I'll tell you, let's think about it, the wife's having an affair, but she didn't work. The husband's now going to have to pay her alimony anyway, he is not going to be happy. Those cases are ugly. You can imagine the emotion in that. But no, the law is the law and if you're living with somebody else, that's a whole other story. That will absolutely affect alimony and you won't get alimony if you're living with another man in a romantic relationship. But the affair in and of itself does not keep you from receiving alimony.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. What if he was having an affair? It just, yeah, it had no effect period.

Heather Quick:

No effect. If you want to, I don't think I've given you this example. If you think about like The Godfather movies and they had the mistress set up and clearly costing thousands and thousands of dollars. Okay, that's relevant. That's a lot of money out the door on an extra marital relationship. You see receipts for flowers and some gifts and maybe a trip, that's relevant. But in the grand scheme of things, if it's not a bunch of money spent, it's just not going to make as big of an impact. That's where it is relevant on money spent on an extra marital relationship, because you've taken marital money and spent it on someone else. So, you owe me that back or half of it back, half of its mine, half of it's yours. You look confused.

Julie Morgan:

Oh, Heather, I am so confused right now.

Heather Quick:

I'm sorry.

Julie Morgan:

Because I mean, and again, I can't be the only one, because I was thinking that, that would have some type of bearing on how much I could get, because of the distress that it caused me.

Heather Quick:

I mean, I like it, I like where you're going. If I could make a case for it, I would, but currently in the law there's enough emotional distress from being married, I don't know that you can add that to it. That's just my attempt at some humor. Yes, it should be, but it is not, because we are no-fault state.

Julie Morgan:

Oh my, okay. All right, Heather, any parting words?

Heather Quick:

I guess the only thing is with alimony is we've tipped the iceberg. I apologize if I've confused you to pieces. That means there's more to know if that is something that is going to be an issue in your divorce, that's why you need advice. Everything we talked about today, Julie, is very general. It's so different for every case that’s why it's so important to talk to your attorney and really understand, hey, how does alimony play into my divorce? It may not be anything like how it played out in your best friend's divorce.

Julie Morgan:

Oh righty. Heather, it was great to see you again.

Heather Quick:

Thank you. Great to see you, Julie.

Julie Morgan:

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