In this third episode of Women Winning Divorce, Florida Women's Law Group CEO, owner and attorney, Heather Quick talks about time sharing - AKA child custody, as well as parenting plans and how to succeed in custody cases.
"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.
This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.
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Julie Morgan:
Welcome to Women Winning divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week, we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they are facing. Listen in as she discusses issues, including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce. Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan, and I'm joined by your host Heather Quick. Hi, Heather, good to see you again.
Heather Quick:
Great to see you as well, Julie.
Julie Morgan:
I was listening to our shows, and I'm thinking, "I have even more questions than I had before." Then those questions actually lead to more questions that would be a totally different topic.
Heather Quick:
Yeah, it does because it builds on one another. Then you start thinking about things that really you wouldn't have ever probably thought about before or you think about it in a different way. Then you're like, "Well then, how does this affect something else?" I think that's very natural.
Julie Morgan:
Let's talk about today's topic, and I remember this, it's not child custody, It's time sharing.
Heather Quick:
That is correct. You're so good.
Julie Morgan:
I learned something.
Heather Quick:
You're paying attention. You're paying attention, Julie.
Julie Morgan:
When you think about the state of Florida, how does the state of Florida view time sharing? How does it define it?
Heather Quick:
The state of Florida looks at time sharing as essentially, I mean, it is what most people, if you're not using legal language, think of as custody. It also makes sense with the word time sharing, how much time and you're sharing your children together with the time. They really look at it to begin with, as the children should spend as much time with each parent as possible.
Julie Morgan:
Half and half, right? Do you get equal time?
Heather Quick:
Well, I think there are a lot of options regarding that. Practically speaking, it's not quite that easy. Easy to say, "Oh, we're going to have equal time." That makes everybody happy. There are so many other things that then result from that. The biggest thing I will tell you is that communication is essential. When you are, it doesn't matter the age, because there's different challenges at every age of the children, but communication is key. You really have to get along. You really have to be flexible with one another.
As you can imagine, individuals who are divorcing may not have the best communication with one another. It presents its challenges. When I was younger, I won't give away my age, but let's say you look, 20, 30 years ago, it was different and our household and the make of families were different, not 100% but a lot. I mean, in this generation, more women are not only working but very successful. It's more of a partnership with the children then it used to be then traditional, like my grandparents, let's say. Of course, that is not for everybody, but I think everyone can think in terms of, "Hey, there was a majority of a standard situation 30, 40 years ago, that the mom was at home, the dad worked." In those cases, that's how it began with the time sharing, this every other weekend because the dad had to work, so the mom needed to be there during the week.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Now, so earlier I said equal time. I know Florida is an equal right state, so equal rights does not necessarily mean equal time.
Heather Quick:
That is correct. At the end of the day, it's what's in the best interest of the children. Many men's rights groups will say, "Oh no, we deserve 50/50 all the time." Well, if that's not in the best interest of the children, no you don't. And you know what? If it's not in the best interest of the children for the mother to have them the majority of the time, no, that's not what's going to happen. What's best for the children is what’s going to happen, for their schedule, for their age, their developmental stage. There's so many things that go into that to have a blanket, "This is the way it's going to be," doesn't consider all the nuances of children and the way the family operated prior to the divorce.
Julie Morgan:
Tell me this, can one parent get sole custody of the children?
Heather Quick:
That's an extreme type of case. That's going to be a case where you've got somebody, I mean, essentially in jail, an addict who's gone. I mean, you're just, it is extreme that, but it's happened. I have absolutely been involved in cases where that was the way it needed to be. Generally, sole custody is different. You haven't lost your parental rights. You could. That's a different type of law that we don't handle, but there's typically, if you get better, if you get help, then there can be relief for you to maybe see your children again. But yes, that does happen. Those are the extreme cases that there is serious substance abuse, mental health issues and/or criminal activity, things like that.
Julie Morgan:
I'm glad you actually just clarified that because when I think of sole custody, I do think of one parent has lost their rights and that's it.
Heather Quick:
And right, correct. That's a different topic of law. That involves a lot more of the state agencies. It does happen. If you see a sole custody issue, it's going to be the things that I spoke about, drugs, substance abuse, jail, mental health, severe, severe things. Then that would be when that would be appropriate to even seek that.
Julie Morgan:
Okay, so those are extreme cases you would say.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely.
Julie Morgan:
Yeah. Can the children pick who they want to live with?
Heather Quick:
No, they can’t. On one hand, many people say, "Well, I heard when they're 13," people hear a lot of things that have nothing to do with what's in the law. We all watch a lot of TV, we've seen movies and somebody tells you this, so you're like, "Well, it must be true." And/or if you are like my children, and if it's on TikTok, I mean, it must be true, right? And so if you saw it there, I'm going to tell you that is not true.
There are cases where the children have input, but it's such a dangerous thing because look at it, if you can think about it this way, we want the children to love both parents and children should not have to choose. There are a lot of things maybe about their parents that they really shouldn't know. They'll find out one day, but when we're looking at these core proceedings, maybe they don't need to know that. It puts a child in such a difficult position because they don't want to choose. They don't want to, even if they're much more comfortable and happy with their mom, they don't want to hurt their dad's feelings and/or if they want to be with their dad more, they're like, "Oh well, my mom's lonely. I don't want to hurt her feelings." The courts take all that into effect.
Also, who wants to give children that much power, particularly teenagers who are one, I think naturally manipulative. I mean that in the best way. If they're healthy, normal teenagers, they're manipulative. They are very egocentric. You don't want to give them that power because yes, they can be bought and yes, they can be swayed. But it's important, the older they get for them to have input, if that makes sense for a 16 year old, but just because you turn 13, doesn’t mean you make the decision.
This is an example of a case where somebody, they're with the mother the majority of the time during the proceedings and the mom says, "Hey, I want to testify. The child wants to testify and tell the judge how much they dislike their father or how much they don't want to be there." My concern there is that if they've been with you all the time, where are they getting that impression, and how is that going to reflect on you? That's a big concern, so we really must dive into it. That's when you need the mental health professionals, which we've talked about before.
Julie Morgan:
So many more questions. Okay. Well, let's, first of all, start here. This sounds like a very, just emotional procedure to go through.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Even if you don't disagree, even if it's your typical situation and it's just emotional because it's your life, it's your children. Yes, it is. Then it just goes from there when there's so much animosity, there's different values, different thoughts on how to parent that existed when you were together. Somebody wins. Somebody doesn't. Now it's separate, those things tend to be magnified. It can be extremely difficult.
Julie Morgan:
Another thing you mentioned about teenagers, how, as they get older, as children get older, and if you bring them so deep into the process, they could try to get exactly what they want.
Heather Quick:
Yeah, and that's going to happen anyway. Everybody's heard that term, Disney World dad. I think that's normal. I know people get upset, but parents are just trying to make it better in a way, maybe trying to make up for their guilt. There's a lot of things. People are just doing, the majority of the time, the best they can with what they have and within them, like what their abilities are, which is essentially what they learned as a kid. It can get to a situation when as you have an adolescent, a young adult, when they know too much about it, it's not good. The reality is there's so much information out there on the internet and ways, if they really wanted to, but certainly just don't spoon feed it to them. Don't let them read the stuff. Don't involve them as if they are your friend. It's not healthy. It's not. If the court finds out and they figure that out, it is going to come back on you. Even if you had the right intentions, it's not going to look good.
Julie Morgan:
This goes back a little bit to another show that we did together. You talked about the fact that there are certain things that you should not post on social media. In addition to your future ex-spouse finding out about it, what about the kids finding out about certain things as well?
Heather Quick:
That's right. At the end of the day, and I'm not a therapist, although I've learned a lot, I have a lot of experience, it's going to come back on you. If you're talking bad about their parent, it does reflect poorly on you. At the end of the day, your children, I mean, that's their blood. That's their genes. That's not helpful to their self-identity if you're disparaging somebody who helped create them. It's just not good. It's not.
Julie Morgan:
That goes back to the mental health aspect as well. Yeah. I also notice that they know if their parent is bad.
Heather Quick:
If they're that bad, I will say, Julie, if they're that bad, the kids are going to figure it out when their adults. Let them figure it out on their own. It's true.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. I just had to turn off my microphone to laugh. All right, just bringing you guys into the video part of this. I also noticed that courts require a parenting class for all divorces with children.
Heather Quick:
This is true. Just to give you some education on how ideally you should communicate, a lot of the classes they used to be online and in person, of course, now they're all online. There's good information, but it's only as good as the person who is checking that box is receiving it. We should probably have parenting classes be before we have children.
Julie Morgan:
Yes, absolutely. I can definitely agree with that one. And you know what? I thought about this as well. Like I said earlier, this goes back to the child's mental health. Does a child always meet with a mental health professional during this time just to check things at out?
Heather Quick:
No, there is no requirement in the statute, there is no requirement through the cases. It's a very good idea. It is something that I encourage my clients to do. At the end of the day, the parents have to take them. There can be a lot of control issues sometimes with one parent not liking a therapist or what the therapist has to say. But aside from that, I think it's of the utmost importance just to allow your child a place to express how they're feeling about their situation.
Julie Morgan:
Help them talk it out. Get those feelings out.
Heather Quick:
In a way that's not judgemental. They really do. They don't want to hurt either parent. They don't. They don't want to say anything. This can give them a space just to maybe discuss their feelings in a way that they don't feel like maybe they're hurting the other parent.
Julie Morgan:
Now we live in a society, we live in a world where we talk more about mental health issues, so it's becoming more normal. It's not there yet, but it is becoming that way.
Heather Quick:
Agreed. It needs to, particular in our adolescence, as I've had children in that age and even in the last five years, it's serious. These teenagers in a intact home with a lot of support will struggle. They struggle a lot. Julie, you've got me thinking, I need to go propose a bill or something for the legislature to really enact this and we actually are in a mental health crisis at this moment. It's very difficult to get an appointment with therapists for your children. I encourage them get the children in. These therapists are booked, this psychologist, psychiatrist thing. They're busy right now, as busy as divorce attorneys.
Julie Morgan:
Wow. Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, we talked about child custody, also known as time sharing. Let's talk about parenting plans, define a parenting plan again, for me.
Heather Quick:
A parenting plan is a document that really details how certain responsibilities are going to be handled with the children. There's a lot of very typical language that deals with communication. Then it talks about schedule and is very detailed and not just your weekly-daily schedule, your holiday schedule, the birthday, mother's day, father's day, the parents' birthdays. You can really, you can craft this. I will talk about summer vacation, extracurricular activities, it details so much. There's so many things you can put in there because you're going to want to, you can't always anticipate everything, but it's a comprehensive 20-30 page document.
Julie Morgan:
Okay, so let's talk about this. I didn't even think about all of that. You named holidays. You named birthdays for everyone really and summer vacations, all of the above. How long does this process take? Because I'm thinking, you said 20 to 30 page document. This has to be an extended process to come up with this.
Heather Quick:
Yes, and it's something that when you're going through the divorce, we discuss with our clients to begin thinking about it and looking at it because of course there's a standard parenting plan. You can start with that. There's the standard one for Duval County, St. John's County, "Hey, this is our guidelines. You can build on it and change it." Because it is built, the standard time sharing and parenting plan is built around the traditional school schedule. It is, and that's essential the way it is. If, and it is really important because it is very much just your basic school schedule, but if you are Jewish not Christian, it's not going to account for those holidays, so you're going to have to really plan for those. If you are Muslim and celebrate other holidays and I know Ramadan is very different and I had a client that was and we had to go through, when is that going to occur?
That's why it is so important because we're not all the same, clearly. We don't all have the same traditions, and therefore it's important to think about that. If it's Christmas, Christmas Eve, you have a tradition, generally for your Christmas Eve versus your Christmas Day. You want to think about that in your parenting plan. Some people have a big Thanksgiving, others, not so much. We're going to alternate everything. Think about some whole family's do family vacations the second week in July all the time. Well, you better put that in there, because otherwise that's not going to be your time. It can get so contentious for many people on the holidays and the time. It's just, it's a process.
Julie Morgan:
Yeah. You said contentious. I was thinking, "This is a sticky situation."
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. What if they have different religious beliefs that creates an even bigger situation or stickier situation.
Heather Quick:
Girl, that is an understatement of the century. Let me just tell you that it it really is. It's difficult because then Constitution, separation of church and state, and you bring religious issues to the court.
Julie Morgan:
Ugh.
Heather Quick:
It is difficult because, as two people who came together, sometimes courts will say, "You guys have to figure this out. I am not going to make them do one or the other. At the end of the day, I've got to divide. I've got to figure out who's going to spend what time with who. You can do your religion during your time and the other can do theirs." Yes, there are ways to get there with compromise. That's what I was talking about with the parenting plan, thinking about what you want, where we can compromise is truly best. If we're in front of a court to make these decisions, that judge does not know either one of you. They are only going to have a short amount of time to figure that out. They're going to make the best decision that they can based on the evidence they hear, but they're going to fall back on a lot of boiler plate, typical things.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. I have even more questions, but another thing I thought about is primary custody. Okay, so this is going back to what we talked about in the first segment. What does that mean to have primary custody? Because does that go back to the equal, there's no such thing as equal time?
Heather Quick:
Yes, so now the word is really majority, who has them the majority of the time. Somebody's address needs to be designated for school. We're dealing with the children, minor children, so they're under 18. Someone's address absolutely has to be designated for school. That usually would be what you're thinking, that doesn't take anything away from either parent. We can go into that in detail, that's going to have more to do with just logistics.
Julie Morgan:
Okay.
Heather Quick:
They've got to live somewhere. Kids need to know where they live. I mean, now they're so adjusted, they have two homes, the children adapt. As hard as it is on the parents and as difficult as the process is, they usually get there with two loving, reasonable parents.
Julie Morgan:
Okay, and I was thinking that the majority custody, that it has something to do with how everything is going to eventually be laid out with the parenting plan, as far as who gets them for holidays and that type of thing, but that doesn't have anything to do with it.
Heather Quick:
That is correct. The holidays, even if let's just say, we'll say the mother has them the majority of the time and the dad just really has mostly weekends. He's still going to get half the holidays, he's still going to get half the summer if he wants them or reverse. I mean, so yes, it's a formula. It comes down to money. If you have them more than 40% of the time, you're going to pay less child support, and so it's a 60/40 thing. We can talk all in, "Oh, I want to be with my kids, whatever." I'm cynical, I've seen a lot of it. It's about the money, so very often that's the point of the time.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. I know you just saw me make some crazy faces when you said the child support thing, but I know, I know this is going to come up in a future show, so I'm going to leave that where it is, okay?
Heather Quick:
Yes. We'll dive into that ne on the next show.
Julie Morgan:
So another thing that I noticed is healthcare and expenses. I mean, the parenting plan just lays out everything, education decisions, college expenses, healthcare expenses, extracurriculars, how the parents will communicate, so basically you can't call me, but you can text me, something like that. I don't know. I mean, it really lays out everything.
Heather Quick:
It can and it does. It lays it out in an ideal world. If you can't agree, if you're at a crossroads, you need to go refer back to that. There are so many people where it is as contentious and difficult as the actual process can be. Once the divorce is final, you guys have a schedule and you move forward, you move on with your life and you follow it. But maybe you don't always have to do it because, I mean, maybe you don't always have to refer to it. Some people it is, if it wasn't in there, that's not what they're doing, but many people can be flexible. On the money part and on the schedule, those are important. Yes, some people need to communicate through an app, because texting and phone calls, it doesn't work for them. It can be that somebody can really harass another person through multiple texts and phone calls. I know it's surprising to you by your face, Julie, but it is very, I don't know if I'll say common, but it happens.
Julie Morgan:
It happens. Oh man, okay. Another thing I was thinking about, so what do the courts look at when they're deciding custody and/or time sharing and parenting plans? There are guidelines that they follow, right?
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. It's in the statute, that's really what they have to follow. When I say it's in the statute, they are going to talk about what has been the involvement? What is the ability of one parent versus the other to provide a stable home? What is the ability of one parent versus the other to communicate with the other? That's a hard one, how well does one parent communicate openly and is flexible with the other. What is the ability, of course, to support them, those are a lot of the main things.
Of course, it looks at historically who has provided the care. Unfortunately, and that's one of the hardest things that we do, because there are so many women who are like, "before a divorce, I did everything. Now all of a sudden, he wants a say in the school and talks to the teacher and do all these things. I don't know that I want them to be in gymnastics or football or whatever." It's difficult, but yes, so the court looks at are they involved in school, what is their ability to be involved? What is the developmental stages of the children, because it varies. We have people divorcing with very young children. Babies, they have to see their parents frequently. They shouldn't be away from either parent for a long period of time. They look at if there any issues of violence, any issues of substance abuse, things like that.
Julie Morgan:
Okay, so one thing you mentioned was the ability, so it could be possibly, just putting this out there, it could be that let's say the father, he wants to be there, but he may not be able to because work takes him away from home 15 to 20 days out of the month.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. That is and I've had, this is an example I've seen many times. The mother has been the primary caregiver. By that, I mean, making their lunches, getting them to school, bath time, dinner, taking care of the children in the house. Father travels half the month, let's say two or three times, like all the time. Then come to the divorce, and he's like, "No, I want 50/50." You're like, "That's just not even possible." The court is not going to give him half the time so that he can have nanny watch them. That's not in their best interest. It can very much be just an intimidation thing that they plead in there because it's just not feasible. They don't have the capacity. No, you can't go quit your job and then not support your family financially.
Julie Morgan:
Yeah, that will create even more issues. Yeah. Another thing that you mentioned, you talked about maybe if possibly there are substance abuse, domestic abuse, that type of thing, drug abuse. What happens if that's the case? Is there an extra party involved, so I can see my child?
Heather Quick:
Well, sometimes they're supervised, absolutely. That can go from there are certain agencies that the child can go visit with their parent and they're under supervision. A lot of times that is a better situation, because it's more objective than if it's a family member. As you can imagine that can get a little uncomfortable and maybe not in everyone's best interest. That's one way, is through supervision. Sometimes with substance abuse, there's a lot of different devices and tools out there for our iPhone and the apps like a breathalyzer, so that can be one thing. If alcohol is an issue or drugs, the court can impose certain things you have to do in order to see your children. That's certainly been done.
Julie Morgan:
Again, even more questions. Yes, even more questions because you mentioned the fact that it probably would not be best if it was a family member. A third party that has nothing to do with the situation, it's neutral.
Heather Quick:
Exactly, which is better for everybody because then things don't escalate, but that costs money. People aren't doing that for free. Again, there's a barrier to that, because you're paying an individual to provide that supervision.
Julie Morgan:
Duh, I didn't even think about that. Okay, all right. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney for Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, we were just talking about parenting plans. I mean, a lot goes into creating a parenting plan, a lot.
Heather Quick:
It does.
Julie Morgan:
But what do I need to do to change it?
Heather Quick:
Well, that's not necessarily anything that happens very easily. That's why it's so important to get it done right the first time, because a lot of things are going to be very difficult. I still believe this and this is the truth. I say this to many clients, "Do it right the first time, because that is the most time either party's probably going to get. It's going to be quite the legal burden to change that." Not that we're not successful many times but we're only going to move forward on that if you absolutely need to do it. Essentially, it's a whole new trial. It's going to be even more intense and complicated than the original divorce.
Julie Morgan:
One parent wants or needs to relocate. That cannot be easy.
Heather Quick:
It's not. It's a lot of factors again, that go into determining whether the relocation will be in the best interest of the child. It’s usually in the best interest of the parent, but now they look at, you really have to prove it's best for the child to move with that parent.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Can the judge say, "Nope, you can't go.
Heather Quick:
Yes, and what they'll say is, "You can go, but the child's going to stay here with the other parent." You look completely shocked, Julie.
Julie Morgan:
Okay, okay. Let's talk about this. You can go, but the child must stay.
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
I mean, that seems to create even more division in a divisive situation.
Heather Quick:
Yes, and as you know, we only represent women and I'm a mother, so clearly I have a strong point of view on the mother of a child. I do believe there's nothing wrong with people getting divorced and they do get remarried. The classic example, and I know already the look on your face that I am going to see, is that the wife gets remarried. They have a child. Then maybe say they have another child, you get a nice new blended family. Husband’s in the military and gets transferred to California. You have to go to court, and the judge could say no if they feel like it's not in the child's best interest. It will completely divide that family. You're going crazy. I can tell.
Julie Morgan:
Hold on. I mean, this is a serious situation if you think about, especially here in Jacksonville. We have military bases, so this is something that possibly is happening right now as we speak.
Heather Quick:
Very much so, and that does, it happens a lot. One of the things we address when we're dealing with that original parenting plan, it is important. I always ask clients, "Well, is your family here? Is this the place where you think you're going to stay or not?" Because some people are like, "Well, I think I'd want to move in a few years." It's like, "Well, at least that's important to know that we can, one, tell you this is what's going to have to happen." It is difficult, Julie, because if you think about it, think if you're divorced and your ex-husband maybe has the children half the time and is very actively involved, but you've moved on with your life with a new spouse and family and they get relocated, what if you can't go with your new spouse?
I share this from the woman's perspective, because in my experience, the man will go with his new wife or whatever. They're not as worried about it. Yes, we still have to have a new parenting plan and how are they going to see you? Because it's not going to be an equal time sharing if you're more than 50 miles away, but they'll go. It's just women don't and they have to go through the court system. Men will go without their kids, because you know, they can do that and then figure that out. But most mothers aren't going to leave their child. Then they have to go through the court. If the husband wants to fight because they don't value, maybe the child's relationship with the mother more than their own, which can happen, it's difficult.
Julie Morgan:
I will randomly say things, just letting everyone know this, but it just makes me think this is possibly why some women don't remarry. It's just a thought. I'm not expecting, you don't have to respond. It's okay. It's okay. Just my thought. That's possibly why some women don't remarry because it just adds a layer of just issues.
Heather Quick:
Oh indeed, it does. They still do remarry, but I'm sure many don't. Part of it, Julie, is we have these children and the reality is we have them for such a short time, when you think about your lifespan. We have such a short period of time, but so much goes on. We live in a world that people are moving. It's so mobile and a lot happens. It just can make it so difficult. It's hard. These are issues that are real for people. You can have a parent on the other side who just makes your life difficult.
Julie Morgan:
This also goes back to, it's good to have a good relationship with that other person, because it just would help things out so much.
Heather Quick:
You can try and sometimes it's just impossible. I know we'll talk about the whole narcissist. We'll get into that on many, many episodes. It's not always, you can only do so much, but you can control your own behavior and your own approach and how you show up in that relationship. Unfortunately, that is not always enough.
Julie Morgan:
All right, I'm just going to move on. I'm I really am. I'm just going to move on.
Heather Quick:
I think that's a good idea or you're going to get too upset.
Julie Morgan:
I know, right? Well man, okay. All right, so during divorce proceedings and custody cases or time sharing, there are some things that you can do to be successful in a case and not be self-destructive. You mentioned this in segment one of this show. I see this is a long list. One is, do not talk negatively about the ex in front of the kids. That's one of the things that you touched on. Help us, I mean, this is really self-explanatory however, we may need to hear it. Why is this important?
Heather Quick:
It's important because, and you know what? Everybody, they have their relationship, they have their dynamics. Once you get to court, everybody's looking, okay, so that's one thing. It's like, "okay, now everybody is looking." And so therefore something that may not have seemed like a big deal, that may have been the communication or the style for so long, that is going to hurt you. Everybody's got an iPhone. It's very possible your ex may video or tape them, your children may and for goodness sakes, don't leave voicemails. Don't put stuff in writing. I mean, and I like it if your ex does, because I've played those voicemails and that can be a beautiful thing. Just if you're my client, I'd prefer you not do that. Let's get him to leave the angry voicemail.
Julie Morgan:
Also, be actively involved in parenting, actively involved because doesn't that help with your case?
Heather Quick:
It does. By that, yeah, are you going to the school, you meet with the teachers and you help with homework. The thing is, I think everybody does things in a different way. When they know they're about to go to litigation, there's been, sometimes it's a shift in behavior and you may see somebody, "Oh wow, they're becoming super dad." Just continue to do what you're doing. I find most women they already are, but communicate that to your attorney of all the things you do, because you do so much in a day, kind of are like, "Oh my gosh, if I wrote all that down, I'd be exhausted. I didn't even realize." But it's important. You've got to toot your own horn. You've got to be very clear as to all of the things you do, like scheduling doctor's appointments, taking to doctor's appointments, following up with their referrals and school and tutors and picture day and volunteering in the classroom and who brought treats and all these things. There is so much, it's practically impossible to have a full-time job outside of that and most women do both.
Julie Morgan:
That's a time that you should not be modest.
Heather Quick:
Indeed.
Julie Morgan:
Be cooperative in willing to co-parent with your ex. We hear about co-parenting so much from the stars that say that they do this so perfectly, but there has to be some willingness to do it.
Heather Quick:
Yes, and that's when, we go back to therapy. If you hate them, you're going to have to deal with it because I'm telling you've got children and you've got to figure out a way to deal with it. I mean, they can be awful and they cheated on you and they are the worst husband ever, but if they're showing up to parent, the court's going to let him parent, and you're going to have to get the therapy you need to set those boundaries and move on and move through that because your children are a part of that.
It's not that you ever get over it. You just go through it, but you're going to have to find another outlet to heal that. It will only benefit you. Nobody benefits from walking around with that hate and that anger in them towards anybody. I'm not saying that's easy, but I'm saying it is for yourself. Of course, then that will benefit your children. It doesn't do well for you, the kids see it. Your children, you can end up alienating them if it's that severe, because they're going to be tired hearing it. They're like, "My dad's part of me. Now that must mean you hate me or I'm just like him, I do this. I don't want to be here." That can happen. It really can.
Julie Morgan:
When we talked about therapy and mental health in the first two segments of this show, really that's for the child, as well as the parents.
Heather Quick:
Yeah, this is a life changing event. It is so important to take care of yourself and address how hurt you are, how angry, how you feel. Whether you have kids or not, you really don't just slide by this, that this is not a big deal. It's worth the time to understand yourself, forgive yourself, forgive your spouse and move through that just for your future. As we talked early on, I believe that divorce provides you an opportunity. It doesn't have to be the end of your life. It's an opportunity and if you use it to learn about yourself, otherwise you're going to be in the next marriage's going to be the same thing, and we're going to be having the same complications because you married the exact same person. Then you showed up exact same way.
It can be better. I've told clients many times, "You can come back and tell me I'm right. I know I'm right, so I don't really need you to come back and say, 'You were right. I should have done this.'" I don't need, I certainly talk a lot, but it's only for the benefit of the clients and none of it's easy. That's why people don't just go do it. It's hard to reflect on those things and forgive. It is, but it can be worth it, and especially if there's children in your life.
Julie Morgan:
Repeat customers. Making false claims about your ex to gain custody, that's a no-no.
Heather Quick:
That is a no, no. I mean, that's lying. You are going to get caught. You're going to look terrible as if you're alienating. There is not, and I, as an attorney and as all attorneys, we only know what our clients tell us. I'm not there in your home. I don't know what's going on. But some things that, when you hear stuff, most of the time, I will tell my client, I need other pieces to put this together, because we don't go to court he said, she said and we need something to build this case. It's all about building the case. It's all about having evidence to do so. It doesn't have to be video cameras or somebody else saw it. There's so many different ways, but that's where it really requires trust and full disclosure to your attorney about everything. Even when we talked about relocation and modifying, there's usually not one thing. It's usually 10 or 15. There are these facts. We build it up. We show that this is how you make a case.
That’s why, lying would not fare well. Most clients are telling the truth and the judge is human. They may not believe you. That's why it's important that your attorney really works to make sure it's not just you there. There's other things that then when the whole picture's there, "Oh, okay. Yeah, that does look like that's the situation."
Julie Morgan:
It's called building a case. Yeah.
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
Yeah, building a case, yeah. Heather, I cannot believe we've already come to the end of the show. Is there anything you'd like to add about time sharing, parenting plan? Anything else that I did not ask?
Heather Quick:
Oh, that would be the next, I'm sure, five or six shows, but mostly, it's just understanding it's a big deal. This is a big deal. You are going to court. You are now subject to the laws of Florida. It's so important to have the advice of a lawyer who is going to help you understand what you're getting into and what you're agreeing to and what your options are. It's just so important because those years, even though, and they go quickly, those 18 years when you have children go quickly and there's a lot of life in a lifetime with them, however, when you're in it, it's difficult and these things matter.
Julie Morgan:
They definitely do. Thank you for listening to Women Winning Divorce. We hope you found information to help you navigate your divorce. If you like our show, please take the time to subscribe and provide a five star review. If you need more information, please visit our website at womenwinningdivorce.com, where you will find previous episodes and other helpful content. Join us next week as we continue our journey of Women Winning Divorce.