Women Winning Divorce with Heather B. Quick, Esq.

#24-Modifying a Divorce Decree

Episode Summary

In this episode of Women Winning Divorce, join Heather as she discusses modifying a divorce decree. Heather details the process for modifying the divorce, including alimony, child support, custody and relocation terms.

Episode Notes

"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.  

 

This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.  

 

Visit us at https://www.womenwinningdivorce.com/ for more resources.

Text us at 904-944-6800 for a copy of Heather's Top 5 Divorce Tips.  

 

If you have questions or a topic you would like Heather to cover, email us at  marketing@4womenlaw.com

Episode Transcription

Women Winning Divorce
Episode 24
Modifying a Divorce Decree

Julie Morgan:

Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they are facing.

Listen in as she discusses issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce. Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan and I'm joined by your host, Heather Quick.

Julie Morgan:

Heather, how're you doing today?

Heather Quick:

I am doing great. How are you today?

Julie Morgan:

I'm doing well. I almost said, "Heather, what's up?"

Heather Quick:

I like it. I could tell. You're ready today. Fired up.

Julie Morgan:

Yes, I'm fired up today. So today we're talking about modifying the divorce decree. Now, we've talked about making changes before and I'm like, "Is this possible?" And I know it's possible but it's difficult. So let's talk about this. Can the divorce be modified?

Heather Quick:

Some things, yes. That's one of those favorite lawyer answers, it depends. Support, especially child support if it's going to be a long period of time, well, it seems logical, "Oh, that might need to change, up or down, whatever."

Because it's based on income, sometimes alimony may be subject to go up or down. Again, that would be on the specifics of that and sometimes you want to modify things as it relates to the kids. We recently talked all about parenting plans.

So those are just some of the off the top things that may be able to be modified, we're going to get into that obviously more as we go through and then we can talk a little bit about what things cannot be modified. But the most common are money, time with the children and things with the children. With the children, based on their best interests, that will evolve and sometimes things are different and same with money.

Julie Morgan:

All right, so it just depends. Heather, I'm getting used to that answer but I'm not necessarily sure I like it.

Heather Quick:

I hear you. I've heard that before, I get it. It's not that I'm trying to be evasive but you know me, sometimes I give an answer and I go on and on. You're like, "Whoa, you just went a little too far and I didn't ask that much," you just are looking for a yes or no. I can't always give you just straight yes or no.

Julie Morgan:

Oh, no. I definitely, understand that.

Heather Quick:

Hey, you can't always have a yes or no.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah. Don't we wish that was the case? All right, so is it difficult to get it changed?

Heather Quick:

Yes. There's a standard and that's where, without getting too complicated, but there is a legal standard. That legal standard is a substantial change in circumstances since the divorce was finalized. So, if you think about it, it has to be a change and usually it needs to be over a period of time.

Because I know in your mind, you might be like, "Well, we disagree. This just happened last month but things have changed," unlikely that they've changed enough to meet that legal standard if that makes sense.  There needs to be some time and we can get into examples of substantial change of circumstances.

But that's what we're thinking when you want to modify, you want to change agreement. Well, what's happened in the lives of you, your former husband, your children, that would be a reason? Also, how much time has passed?  Those are I would say the initial hurdles we need to get over and discuss. And that's what the attorney will ask you. I understand what you want. I need to understand the why and what is different now.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. So I can't say that, hey, this is something that I forgot.

Heather Quick:

It should be that you didn't anticipate this would be happening. So for example, it's easy to use children because there's a lot of just benchmarks that happen. For example, turn five, they're going to go to kindergarten or six, but kindergarten is coming. And when they're a senior in high school, graduation is coming.

If you're basing it on something that happens in everybody's life, that they're a certain age and then depending on how long ago it was, that's part of the legal hurdle, was this something that you anticipated happening? And if so, it's going to be more difficult is the easiest way to say that.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. So there are certain things that we can anticipate. So you can't just say that, oh, this happened and I forgot that it was going to take place.

Heather Quick:

Now sometimes that does happen, particularly when people do these divorces on their own, there's a lot of things I could say about that. But many times, they're just agreeing to get it over with and that can really backfire of course because now you're stuck with something that you really didn't want.

That's just a very short-sighted way of looking at things and can make it more difficult in the future even though sometimes when you're in the divorce, it's hard to think about three, five years down the road. That's why the attorney can be so helpful.

Julie Morgan:

Okay.

Heather Quick:

To help you think about things a little bit further down the road.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. And so you actually just addressed exactly what I was going to address. This is one of the reasons why having an attorney is so important.

Heather Quick:

Right. For thinking a little bit more long term because things will change. We cannot anticipate everything, as much as we try.  It is never obviously my goal and our goal for our clients that you have to go back to court.

That we've just given you enough of a plan and you guys can move forward. However, sometimes just you have to. It's important that things we could realistically anticipate are addressed.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Alrighty. And that's why you spend so much time on things like the parenting plan and stuff like that. So hopefully you don't have to revisit it.

Heather Quick:

Absolutely. Yes.

Julie Morgan:

All right. So you may have touched on this a little bit. What are some of the reasons for a modification?

Heather Quick:

Well, let's talk about these changes. It's going to be a job, let's say whoever's paying alimony, your ex-husband's paying alimony. He loses his job. Just because he starts making a lot more money, that's not the basis to change.

Your need has to go up substantially. Maybe you lost your job. Something happened to you. You're receiving alimony. You have a higher need. That would be a reason to increase your alimony. The child support with the kids just because they get more expensive. But again, that's going to be based on jobs or let's say there's a relocation and that's just a whole other show, but you get a job offer somewhere else.

That is a very specialized modification because essentially, you're trying to relocate, there’s a lot of legal burden and things to prove in order to get that. And that's very generally time sensitive. 

So those are some of your things a lot or people listening will be experiencing. Changing the time sharing of one parent to another is difficult. That can certainly happen. And there can be reasons for that. As kids age and I will see that usually a new marriage will maybe affect the relationships and things that go on.  As children become teenagers, as I know firsthand, they become extremely smart and they know a lot and they really want to have more input into what they're doing that can affect the parenting plan.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. I want to touch on one thing, but I'm not going to because that's going to lead us down a whole other road. And I really want to touch on this, but I'm not. I'm going to keep it to myself. Alrighty. So there are essentially two ways to modify. What are those two ways?

Heather Quick:

Well, you both come to an agreement, and you write it down and agree. That happens a lot. And a lot of those, I don't even see obviously because they don't come to us or they say "Hey, we agreed to this. Will you write this up so that this is something that is legally binding and enforceable?" The second way is you can't agree. Then you file for the modification, and we go through the court process and we can get into a little bit of that what does that look like.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Alrighty. You know what, I'm sorry. I have to, I have to go back because it's just going to bug me. So you are saying, if, let's say, if my ex-husband gets another job and it pays substantially more, that's not in and of itself a reason to go to court and get things modified as far as alimony is concerned or really especially child support?

Heather Quick:

So yes, in and of itself, alimony is based on your need before his ability to pay. Very often, the original alimony does not meet your need. Let's be clear there. So there may still be an opportunity, but it's not he just got a massive promotion so I'm going to get more money. Not automatically. We would really need to look into the facts of your particular case.

Julie Morgan:

Okay and later, we're going to get into alimony and child support as well as custody and relocation. But boy, I really wanted to know the answer to that question because it was just going to really bother me. 

Julie Morgan:

So let's say if this is something that we can't agree on. What happens then? You said you have to go through the whole court process. Walk me through that and tell me how that looks.

Heather Quick:

It's very much like the original divorce from a perspective of we have to file a petition. He's going to need to be served. We have a timeframe, and it can sometimes be more in-depth than an original trial because you've got a higher burden of proof.

Where it comes really in the burden of proof is the need for alimony.  Now we've got to prove the change. If it's all financial, a little less of a hearing and proceedings.

But if it's more with the children, you're going to have more witnesses. You are going to have probably a more in-depth hearing and/or trial at the end and mediation is going to be ordered again.

So if you go back like, "Hey, what's the process," this is doing the same type of steps, ingredients in that whole recipe to make it work. But the same types of steps, if that is a good analogy, I'm not sure.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah, it does. It makes sense. So the same steps that you have to go through in terms of the divorce, but it could be longer. Or basically this is what I got from you. It could take longer because there's a higher burden of proof.

Heather Quick:

Correct. Now we have something we have to prove that we didn't have too originally. This is the first thing we have to overcome. When we talk about legal stuff, when you hear the burden of proof and who has that, we have to prove this substantial change in circumstances, which is what we would call a legal term of art.

After you show a substantial change then we get into all the facts of what we want. So yes, it's different in that that it's going to be a little bit more complex, generally speaking as a whole generalization. Yes.

Julie Morgan:

And so I'm looking at this list of substantial reasons for change. One is remarriage or cohabitation.

Heather Quick:

That's specifically to alimony. So think about this. Let's go back in time, 20 years. You have alimony and it just says until you die or remarry. So then you're like, "Well, duh, I'm not going to get remarried," but we're going to act like we're married, we're living together. Then the law changed and created this cohabitate element that says if you're living with somebody as if you were married, but not getting married because you're getting alimony, then that would be a basis to terminate the alimony.

But it's quite the burden to prove, but yeah, trust me if we're getting permanent alimony for people, not that as I'm against love, but wait some time, enjoy the alimony before you go do this all over.

Julie Morgan:

You know what? This is what I see. You said the burden of proof and that's difficult to prove. I see someone like a private detective going through trash trying to find the names on letters and that type of thing. That's what I see. It's exciting to me. I probably got really excited when I said that, but that's what I see.

Heather Quick:

Well, and that is exactly what happened because you now have to prove something that you really don't have firsthand knowledge of, you aren't living in the same house anymore. You ought not use your children as spies, even if they're adult children. You ask people who can give you information, but just what they tell you when you ask them a question versus what they may testify to generally are very, very different. And does it meet the burden? So yes, those are absolutely what you've envisioned with the PI and staking them out, how many nights are they spending the night or whatever. Yes.

Julie Morgan:

Oh, wow. That would be an interesting job to have. Oh man, it really would be. Think about it.

Julie Morgan:

You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. When we return, we're going to talk about alimony and child support. Stay with us.

Julie Morgan:

Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Alrighty. So Heather, we talked about some of the substantial reasons for change. We touched on this a little bit, but let's go more in depth. Can alimony be changed?

Heather Quick:

Yes, it absolutely can be. It's a very common thing for that to happen after many years of alimony, because of somebody's retirement, or loss of a job, maybe the recipient getting remarried or you getting a really good job and them saying, "Hey, she doesn't need this much money anymore."

So yes, that can absolutely be changed. You saying I have a greater need. Lots of reasons. Absolutely. Again, it's going to be quite the endeavor, but yes, it absolutely can happen.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. But as you said before, it has to be something that was not anticipated.

Heather Quick:

Correct and not voluntary. So you can imagine this being said, "Oh, I'll quit my job before I pay you alimony. I'll go to jail before I pay you," until you're in jail. And then you change your mind quickly. But if you are voluntarily unemployed, meaning, I’m going to avoid this by losing my job, and that is not a basis.

Then you are going to be stuck with an order that will put you in contempt and create arrearages. Women know the type of people they're married to, and they understand he might very well do something like that. So have another source. Be prepared to take care of yourself if in fact they really do that.

Now they may not pay and create this huge arrearage and it follows them around. Many times we have been able to get that money for you down the road, but it can be extremely frustrating and that is probably an understatement. You're relying on a person who is just not a nice person, who's a difficult person and who wants to make your life miserable.

They can do all that stuff and we have the remedies we have, but that's all. You know what I mean? We have what we have, but they are still the person they are. Will they go to jail? Could the court put them in jail? That's possible, but that’s not always going to put money in your pocket generally. Might feel good for a moment.

Julie Morgan:

That's some vindictive stuff to self-sabotage because you're sabotaging yourself trying to sabotage someone else.

Heather Quick:

Yes, and that's why most of the time, those types of statements are baseless threats. They're from a bully, threatening you with that kind of stuff. We've had our shows on the narcissist. The plus side if you're receiving alimony from the narcissist is their image is too important and their money, everything's too important to just sabotage themselves. They're not necessarily going to sacrifice themselves just to get back at you. They'll come up with other ways. So yes, I mean, and that can happen. No doubt about it. 

Julie Morgan:

Now we touched on this earlier, but we got to go here again. What if a woman knows her ex just got a big promotion or an inheritance. Can she ask for more alimony?

Heather Quick:

She can and I would just tell them, let's evaluate this clearly. Mostly, let's really evaluate your financial situation so I can tell you. And that's not just an answer yes. It's an in depth look at, okay, what is your situation so that we can advise you as best as possible on far as if we think it's worth it or you decide if you think it's worth it.

It's like, "Hey, this is what I'm seeing. I think we have an opportunity to prove your need," because you always want to do a risk benefit analysis before you do a modification of any kind to the extent you can. I think that's important. You need to make the decision as the client.

Then it's like, if we get you say $500 more a month, I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but you're probably going to get alimony for another, let's say 10 years. So that's ends up being $60,000. So, okay. That's worth it. Kind of like with child support Because, and I'm jumping ahead, but there are reasons why you need to do things when you do them and try to talk to an attorney who can give you more of a long term view.

Julie Morgan:

Yeah. Okay. All right. That makes sense. So different types of alimony have different rules on modification, right?

Heather Quick:

Yes. Yes they do. Because some might not be modifiable.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. So wait a minute. When you're coming up with this, you're helping your client, do you try to get ones that are modifiable as opposed to not modifiable because you just never know what's going to happen?

Heather Quick:

It depends.

Julie Morgan:

There you go again, there you go again, Heather.

Heather Quick:

I had to do it, but because that's going to be very fact specific and we're going to talk as your legal team, as your attorney, we're going to talk to you about that. That's back when we say it's important to understand your goals, it's important to have an overall good picture because maybe there's a reason that a non-modifiable term of alimony benefits you and same with the other side, that might be very advantageous to them.

So, we just want to have a whole picture and when you know that's really something he's going to want, well, what do we want in exchange during a negotiation or mediation. There can be a lot of reasons for wanting that. And as the husband paying it, he wants to know this is the amount I'm going to pay and for this many years, boom. 

So that gives him some certainty. If you're giving him that certainty, maybe you're getting a little more in exchange for that or some other asset. A lot of times that's where, I don't want to get too much in the weeds, but yes, there are a lot of reasons to do that based on people's individual facts.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Alrighty. And this is a quick one because we touched on it in the first part of the show. If a woman starts living with someone new, does it affect alimony?

Heather Quick:

Usually if it's what they call supportive relationship. If it's a romantic relationship as well.

Julie Morgan:

Wait a minute. So that person could not even be contributing to my finances, but just because it's a romantic relationship, you won't continue my alimony?

Heather Quick:

Yes, and it used to not be that way. Then there was a case that came out where basically she was receiving alimony and she was the sugar mama and had this young guy who didn't do anything. But she's like, "Well, I'm getting alimony. Move on in. I'll support you too." Then once that case got reviewed and appealed and everything, they're like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that is not right either." So that's how it comes down to it.

Julie Morgan:

Oh, that makes sense.

Heather Quick:

Alimony is very defined and for what reasons and that would be why.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Well that makes sense. Okay. I didn't think about that. I was just thinking, I probably wouldn't be anybody's sugar mama. So that's why I didn't think about that. Yeah. All right. What about child support? What are the reasons for that being modified?

Heather Quick:

Really the new number is based on income needs to be at least 15% more or $50. So whichever one is higher than what it was. So for example, if the payment was a thousand a month, the new support needs to be 1,150 or higher or lower than $850.

So that one can be a little harder because you don't really get your ex's pay stubs. You're not really sure. So you're going to be relying on what seem to be external signs of increased income.

Julie Morgan:

That's where we get the private investigator, right?

Heather Quick:

Yes, yes. Going through the trash.

Julie Morgan:

But another thing I think about also is you possibly get a sign from the kids. The kids, they go for a visit and they get some extra stuff, they go on extra trips and you're like, something isn't right about this. That's another way.

Heather Quick:

Yeah. There's usually some apparent stuff and you're like, "Yeah, I think there's more money." And again, that's why we do the analysis.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. Okay. Oh, Heather, I know I keep going back to that private investigator, but I'm telling you that would be interesting, quite interesting. So reasons for modifying child support. What if he loses his job?

Heather Quick:

So on child support, he has an obligation to find something else and yeah that's where that'll be a very factual evaluation in their proof because usually you have a job at a certain level. You are capable and able to earn that amount.

If say, the company downsized, so you didn't have anything to do with it and the only other thing you can get. So again, there's a lot of facts he must prove in order to do that just in your job and not trying to find another one. That's not going to be sufficient to modify that amount.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. What if the child's expenses goes up or down?

Heather Quick:

That's going to depend. Now they are driving, and they have a car and there's auto insurance. I'm telling you that doesn't come into play with child support.  If they have a need, this is one that really can happen, they can have a need for more medical expenses or care, or they need really more school assistance, like some serious tutoring and some extra things that aren't discretionary.

In this day and age, and depending where you live, many people would argue, it's not discretionary to give them a car, but yet it is. We know that. We do know it's easier on the parent who has them. And with that comes some expenses. That's not going to really get into child support, but medical issues, potentially tutoring, educational things, that would be things that would be very relevant and can be included in that child support number.

Julie Morgan:

You know what? I have another question. Is it possible, because children, as they get older, their needs change. So is it possible to say from the ages of, I don't know, 6 to 11, it's this amount and then from 11 to 18, it's another amount?

Heather Quick:

Unfortunately, no. Although in reality, their needs are much more expensive. The way I really have seen in my experience, when you have children, until they're really in school, their childcare is so very expensive. It really is.

Then you go through a period where they are in school. Usually even if you need before care, after care, it's just substantially less. But then that’s during the school year.  Then you've got summer care, which can be extremely expensive.

All of a sudden, they start getting bigger and all their clothes are too small and eating you out of house and home. Those are realistic expenses and costs. There are ways to include that in a request for an increased child support.

Usually that would be something I would say, we're going to add that on. That's going to be primary reason. There's going to be other reasons why we're going back to court that then we're going to include that.  That in and of itself may not be enough just that they eat so much and are growing out of all their clothes. I mean, it is, but for the cost again, that's just a risk benefit analysis to determine, hey, what does this look like? How likely are we to succeed?

Julie Morgan:

It seems like with inflation and we're right here at the end of this particular segment, but it seems like with inflation, that should be another factor, another thought, but we can talk about that in the next segment. We are listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. When we return, we're going to talk about custody and relocation. Stay with us.

Julie Morgan:

Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. So Heather, custody and relocation. Oh boy. If someone moves, if one of the parents move, how easy is that? Which I believe I remember discussing this just a little bit at another point. How easy is it to modify things if one of the parents has to move?

Heather Quick:

It's a process and I wouldn't say that it's easy. I would say that we have done a lot of it on the relocation. You have a lot of elements to prove. There are a lot of things. And many times, it's not the one thing. We've got to really look at the whole picture.

If you have an opportunity for a job promotion that includes a relocation, it's just important to talk to an attorney as soon as possible to really understand. Because you can really, really harm yourself if you leave the jurisdiction with your children without the agreement of your ex or court approval.

To where, if your ex wants to, they go to court, get a pickup order and show up on your door with a court order saying, "Give me the kids back, I'm taking the kids back."

It's really, important that you follow the steps on this legal advice. And even if he agrees to it, make sure it's a binding agreement because that, I just don't wish that on anybody that, I don't wish that on children. I know parents that do not very smart things, and don't consider the consequences and that's just puts your children through unnecessary turmoil and involvement with the authorities.

That really is when you need a court order or the ex to agree if you're going to move more than 50 miles away from where you are. The basis of that is when you move more than 50 miles away, it's going to impact the time with the kids is the theory behind that. And it's going to impact travel back and forth with how often you're going to see the kids. So that's really where that comes from.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. More than 50 miles. I wonder how they came up with that number.

Heather Quick:

I don't know. I guess they figured, hey, a hundred is too far. You can get pretty far away.  I'm sure it was based on looking at the geography in general of Florida. The way it's mapped out, there are a lot of nearby cities, but once you go 50 miles, you're quite a way away.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. And you know what, I press fast forward all the way to relocation. We're supposed to talk about child custody first and then relocation. So let's go back. What is the reason that custody may be modified?

Heather Quick:

It comes down to the best interest of the child. You've got a parenting plan and everybody's got their time. It's going to come down to the children. If one of the parents isn't following the parenting plan and say they're not exercising their time. They’re not paying child support, which is why they argued to have, or they're paying a reduced amount of child support to have all this time. They're not exercising it.

I want it to go back to one way or another because I can't rely on them. The children are disappointed. They expect to see their father and they're not. Your ex has an addiction and it's affecting clearly their life and the kids. Okay. That is a reason to move to modify custody. Maybe even have it supervised for a period of time.

This goes together, if you believe the child's being neglected, that could be tied into that as well as your concern for their physical, emotional safety. This can be due to an addiction, maybe another parent, I mean, a stepparent somebody they married or a girlfriend, or who they're leaving your child with could be addicted or abusive.

Heather Quick:

Their education. If with one person they're late to school, they miss school, they don't do their assignments. Those are a lot of the things. And then in the end of the day, maybe the child's needs have changed.

Heather Quick:

All of these things, any one of them or usually there's more than one at one time, It's not just what you say about all these. We need evidence. We need people who are independent who can testify as to these things, including the therapist for your child, teachers, doctors, just so many other witnesses that really can provide objective testimony for a good understanding of what's going on.

Julie Morgan:

It seems like with some of those, the burden of proof would be very difficult. It would be very high to prove some of those things. For example, the child's education, I guess the report card could show that, but oh, consistently late. Well, there's proof of that too. So maybe not that one, but it seems like some of those, it would be difficult to prove.

Heather Quick:

It is and it's usually not just one thing. It's really like one brick isn't going to really help you with a wall or one concrete block, but you have to take all the different pieces. That's really what we do as attorneys is tell me more, tell me more.

Then I can say, "Okay, this one thing on its own, I don't think that's enough, but you've told me all these other things. So if we can now put all these together cohesively to show the court in its entirety, there's a lot of stuff going on that's not in the child's best interest, that's how you prevail on that."

Julie Morgan:

And at this point it seems like you should also make sure that you're keeping good records.

Heather Quick:

Always. Yes, yes.

Julie Morgan:

You said always. Would you say that is really the answer as once you're in this, this is something that you're going through as far as the divorce is concerned, that's really you need to start keeping good records at that point?

Heather Quick:

Yes, and it can be as simple as a calendar. I would say handwritten is best and you just make notes and keep up with it because it's very difficult to remember six months ago that Friday, that Saturday, what specifically happened or was it the weekend after that happened?

Once you start having problems, you need to start documenting if you're seeing this go on and on and it just keeps happening. Then it's important to keep those kinds of records. And definitely if your ex is not exercising the time.

If we're trying to change time sharing or relocation that's going to be one of the biggest things that we want proof of with some accuracy. Those are really important things that are going to come into play.

Julie Morgan:

So let's go back to relocation. I got ahead of myself earlier. Let's say that I've remarried and my spouse gets a job in another place. That alone isn't a good enough reason to modify things?

Heather Quick:

It's not in and of itself. And that can be extremely difficult obviously for families. I think that there might be a misconception that that's easy. Of course. We have to go. It's not. You better talk to an attorney and we need to really analyze the situation for you, your child and their relationship with their father. It's not that easy and you need to know that going in.

Julie Morgan:

Oh, that has to be stressful. That has to be because that's causing a strain on your new relationship.

Heather Quick:

Oh my goodness. Without a doubt, and it's causing a strain with your new spouse and your child. That's so unhealthy and not good. I agree, and I think all of that is horrible, but I also agree that if you're in a situation with a super involved dad, you need to know that's not happening.

Or if you are in a 50/50 time sharing and it is going well for the child, it's not happening. I completely get it and I'm all about the second relationships, going on with your life. But you have this child for this short amount of time when you really look at life overall.

These 18 years where, if you have an ex you have to work things out.  To do something like that without thinking it through and then marrying somebody who's active-duty military who's going to go all over and thinking you're just going to follow them, that's not going to happen. You need to think a bit more in depth maybe before you do it, which probably nobody does.

You really need to understand the implications of that and be prepared because the court will say, "You can go wherever you want, but this child's not leaving. They're staying with the other parent." That can be so difficult, but frankly, you did it, you created it all.

You're not a victim. You need to be smart. You should be thinking about these things. And hopefully this helps people think about them because then they're very upset and they want to be a victim and we can't change the law and we can't move mountains.

There are a lot of great cases that we can succeed on in relocation. But the one I just gave you is not necessarily one of those. I get it because you now have this whole new life and all that and you do want to go, but it might not be possible.

Julie Morgan:

Okay. So are there any good reasons for relocation?

Heather Quick:

There are so many great reasons and really a job tends to be a primary one.  I said this about the military because many people end up here with no family and then they do stay. Or now they feel stuck and their ex maybe still here, and it could be any industry. So many industries are coming here. So I'm just using the military as an example because traditionally the individuals move and people love it once they get to Florida.

But when you have small children and you don't have much of a support system in family, that's usually a primary reason you want to move back and you want your children to experience a lot of ties to grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles, and that will help you work and help you with childcare.

There's a lot of benefits for the child that also extend to your ex because you don't have as much of a financial need. Things aren't as much of a struggle. We have with the use of technology if you have FaceTime. You have a lot of things

There are a lot of ways you can continually have a lot of frequent contact. You can keep that relationship good. It improves the financial opportunities for the parent, which does benefit the child. And I think one of the biggest things, and I haven't really seen this. Well, I probably have, I've been doing this a long time, but you're not doing it to remove your child and make them further away from your ex. It's really in good faith to better everybody's life.

I've had some where when they were married, they both came from the same town. Let's say they're both from Texas. So everybody's family's in Texas and we've had clients where they're like, "But his parents are there too. My parents are there. It will benefit the child because there's going to be a lot more family. And if he comes to visit, he has a place to stay." So you think through all those things that then make our case stronger.

Julie Morgan:

Hmm. Oh, wow. Yeah. I wish we had more time for this one because this is important because as you said, I can see this happening in so many different industries and Jacksonville is of course a military town. So it does apply to that. Anything else you want to add on this topic?

Heather Quick:

Just what I said earlier. Moving without court approval or consent, don't do it. Don't do it because it is going to be so costly for you. If they call you on it and you end up getting served by your ex and more likely than not, they will, and that legal battle, you've dug yourself a deep hole.

So therefore, we've got to get you out on level ground, and then try to get you what you want which is relocation. It's a question we always ask our clients when they're divorcing because so many people live in our area that don't have the support system and family.

We ask, "Do you want to stay here? Do you want to go back to where you are from?" At least let's talk about it because it doesn't get any easier.  Part of what you agree to in that original divorce, it's going to matter when you come back in three years and say, "Oh, hey Heather. Yeah, I do want to move.

It does affect your future. If you're thinking, I might have this opportunity, or these are things that I would like to do and move, talk to an attorney sooner than later. And then at least you understand. Again, that risk benefit, you understand your options, or if this or this happens, then I think this will help your case.

That's valid, very valuable advice that I would recommend to anybody. Don't just move if you have children without agreement and not just agreement. In writing. In writing, you need that agreement.

Julie Morgan:

Heather, it's always a pleasure.

Heather Quick:

It is indeed, Julie. And I know usually I tell our listeners to give us a call and reach out to us, but I know you'll follow up with that if they find themselves in a situation needing modification. We are here to help them.

Julie Morgan:

Absolutely.

Julie Morgan:

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Julie Morgan:

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