In this episode of Women Winning Divorce, Heather discusses what to expect if your divorce goes to trial. While most divorces settle before or at mediation, it is important to understand what happens if your divorce case ends up going to a trial before the judge.
"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.
This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.
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Women Winning Divorce
Episode 20
What to Expect if Your Divorce Goes to Trial
Julie Morgan:
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they are facing. Listen in as she discusses issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce. Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan, and I'm joined by your host Heather Quick. Hi Heather, how are you today?
Heather Quick:
I am great. How are you doing Julie?
Julie Morgan:
I'm doing very well, thank you. Today we have a little bit of a change of pace. Am I right?
Heather Quick:
Yes, you are. It is time to move on.
Julie Morgan:
It is time to move on from those narcissists and their crazy ways, I tell you.
Heather Quick:
That is right. That is right.
Julie Morgan:
All righty. So the topic for today is what to expect if divorce goes to trial.
Heather Quick:
Yes, I know it doesn't sound interesting, but it will be.
Julie Morgan:
Hold on. No, actually, you know what? I think it does. Because I'm thinking, okay, how often does a divorce go to trial?
Heather Quick:
Let's say 20% of the time.Maybe that's a little higher, but still that's a good estimate.
Julie Morgan:
Is that something that you, well, I don't want to say want to happen. I guess it just really depends on the case. Well, you tell me? Do you want that to happen or do you want everything to end in mediation?
Heather Quick:
So there are two ways to look at it. I think generally for any couple, if they are able to come to terms and agree, that is better off for them in the long run because at some point there is compromise on each side and maybe that means they're each able to see the other's side and end the adversarial nature of the divorce. That can really be a good thing and I think that most people are able to get there. So yes, that's a good thing. Now, if you're unable to settle, my point of view is probably one side is truly being unreasonable. They are either getting bad advice on what this will look like at trial, or they're not listening to that advice as far as the reality of trial. Because when you're represented, and this is key, when you're represented and you're at mediation, if your lawyer is an experienced family law attorney, they're going to give you a gauge that’s based on their experience, your issues, the judge, where you're going to end up, and nobody gets a slam.
We always talk about going to mediation. You're not going to settle for your worst day in court, neither is your husband. Sometimes we just have to go to trial because the other side absolutely will not compromise or will not accept maybe the reality of some of the legal situations. Therefore, in my experience when we have gone to trial, because that was the reason, we did prevail on the issues that we wanted at mediation.
Julie Morgan:
Okay.
Heather Quick:
That was a really long answer, so I don't know how to the point I was. I hope I was.
Julie Morgan:
Oh yeah, definitely. Well, let me ask you this, is it... Well, again, it probably just depends case by case. So basically what you said, that it's more beneficial for some cases to go to court as opposed to others.
Heather Quick:
Correct and that's because of the individuals involved, really and truly. Because some people just can't accept, can't settle, cannot embrace the mediation. They believe so fully that they are right, they have to go and hear it from a judge. That is a little part of when we have a trial and that can be on either side, but you're in this case and now you're going to hear from a judge. Usually the people that do that are not really accepting reality as far as what's going to happen in a courtroom.
Julie Morgan:
You know what? That sounds like an expensive lesson. Because court, it's not cheap, right? It's not just free to go.
Heather Quick:
That is correct, it is. And it takes a lot of preparation, which we're going to talk a little bit about later. Because that's where I think people don't really understand and they shouldn't, they're not lawyers. If you're not a lawyer, you don't understand this world and you don't understand that there are rules and rules of evidence and procedures to follow. That's the way it goes whether you like it or not. We have our own language and our own rules. When you go into court and you don’t understand, and then come to me, say, after, and all this happened, and this didn't happen. Because you shouldn't have represented yourself. You don't know what you're doing.
Julie Morgan:
Alrighty. So about 20% of cases will go to trial. Are there some people that say, "You know what? I want to go to trial regardless of what happens because I want to put it all out there."
Heather Quick:
Yes, and that's where again, there is a totally misunderstanding from the perspective of, the judge is not going to listen to everything. This is not Jerry Springer, this isn't Judge Judy or now, oh my gosh, there are so many of these court shows. And you see them when you're like in the waiting room somewhere or at a nail salon or whatever, so it's whatever they put up. I'm just shocked by it. There's Couples Court, there is Divorce Court, I'm sure there's still People's Court. It doesn't work like that in real life and too many people think it does. Not even like, what are legal shows now? Like a Law and Order, which I love, I am a huge fan. It doesn't work like that either because the show is an hour and the first half is the police in the second half is the courtroom. It just doesn't work that quickly or like that at all.
Julie Morgan:
You know what? It's interesting that you said that because I didn't even think about it. That's possibly what people think of when they say, "Yes, I want to go to court." They think that they're going to be just like the people on television.
Heather Quick:
I'm not criticizing anybody because they have not been there, they don't know what they don't know. They don't understand, because when you haven't been exposed, you kind of think, "Okay, it's maybe going to be a little bit like that." But I have heard often across the spectrum over so many years, "Well, when the judge hears this, they are going to look differently at my husband in this case." And the reality is that's not that relevant and it’s not going to happen. I'm not going to inflate somebody's sense of, oh, you've got this juicy stuff you're going to tell the judge and it's going to give you everything and put him in jail. It's just not going to happen like that, and that's where having a lawyer and understanding to the best that you can with our explanation, how things will go. That is part of what we do as attorneys so that when they're prepared, if we do have to go to a hearing or a proceeding that they have reasonable expectations just of the procedure alone.
Julie Morgan:
So the judge, he or she will hear evidence and testimony. So what are some of the issues that usually they have to rule on as far as a divorce is concerned?
Heather Quick:
So, in a divorce, if you have children, there's always going to be the issue of most of the time, the child support, parenting plan, and maybe alimony, there's always going to be a division of assets and liabilities. There can be other financial things as far as a business. There's money as far as what's going to get paid for support. Does that fall into alimony? Does that fall under child support? Then we're going to look at the assets, the houses, the accounts, retirement, how is that all going to play out? The country club membership, the timeshare and all these things, the airline miles, oh my goodness. Those things can be all litigated.
There's a lot on that. And then all the debt. What do we have as far as creditors and credit cards and how does that go? There are all of those issues. And I will tell you, you have to be very focused and clear on the issues and what you're asking for and what evidence you need to put forward in order to present your case to the judge.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Heather, I know you saw my face.
Heather Quick:
I did. You're just like, "What?"
Julie Morgan:
Did you want the airline miles? Yes.
Heather Quick:
I did and now they have value. We've learned over the years, it's hard to assess a dollar amount to them, but they do. They have value. This new thing that maybe we'll do a show on this later because this is not the time, but now there's all this cryptocurrency. There's value in things that may not be readily apparent, but if you don't address it, it is gone.
Julie Morgan:
You, you just sent me into a totally different direction when you said that, right? Because I'm thinking that's a good thing to hide, the cryptocurrency. I say, good, I'm using air quotes. As in, that's probably something that's easy to hide, but that's just what I'm thinking.
Heather Quick:
Yeah, that's for a whole other day because that is kind of the new horizon of things. But then with, a lot of individuals work at large companies and there are going to be a lot of benefits there and you really have to go through those and are there stock options? Are there other assets that through the marriage, we need to look at, determine the value, and then how do we divide it or present to the court, or do we trade it out for something because not all assets are equal? Retirement money is in there, it's a wonderful asset, but it's not for paying your bills now. If that's how you intend to use it, you're going to pay taxes and penalties if you are not at the right age to withdraw. So that's not equal to cash in a money market.
This is when we have these many issues, and where the attorneys narrow the issues. Sometimes we may, with the other side, have an agreement. Usually that's where the attorneys, we do have to meet and the courts require us to at least agree on what the issues are that we disagree about. Does that make sense?
Julie Morgan:
It does. So basically, the judge, he won't waste his time on something that they agree on, right? It needs to be something else that they don't agree on.
Heather Quick:
Correct. When that's possible, we can, and maybe we agree. And the thing is, there's so much, I don't want to get into the weeds, but there's so many things we can disagree on.Like the house, let's just say the house. We can agree on what date should we value the house. Because let's say we filed for divorce two years ago, a house that was worth 500,000 then, now it’s worth closer to a million. So there's a big difference, because look at the market right now in 2022, if somebody's listening to this later. So there's a lot of things that need to be determined in regards to value in assets. I know you gave me a big surprise face on that one, for sure.
Julie Morgan:
That's true. I didn't think about that. And I know, yeah, we are getting into the weeds with this. But basically what you're saying is that the judge, that's just, well, I say just one, that's just a whole lot of the financial part that he has to consider, especially if there's an agreement.
Heather Quick:
That's why there is so much prep, now a lot of this is we prepare for and deal with prior to mediation. Because you're almost, you are advocating for your side in mediation, even though it's maybe to the mediator because you want the mediator to communicate to each side, "Hey, they're pretty strong on proving this part." You may have some vulnerability, some exposure here. So that's kind of part of that. But yes, the attorneys have to do all of this preparation because we've been dealing with this case usually at least 12 months, probably before we go to trial, around about.
We have a lot of information and we've been inundated with information on all the issues. Now we have to narrow that because maybe we have only one day to present this to the judge.One day means your side has half a day and they have half a day. The time goes so incredibly quickly. I will tell you Julie, eight hours. I know it's shocking, but it goes really quick. And the attorneys, there's just a lot of preparation because we need to be clear, concise, but thorough and get the information in front of the judge, because then the judge is the ultimate decision maker now. If we are at trial, the judge is making the decision, period.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. And you just mentioned something, a little tidbit of something that we're going to talk about in the second part of this show as far as what happens in a trial and how long it usually lasts.
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
Which is one day.
Heather Quick:
Well, we'll talk about that. That was just an example.
Julie Morgan:
Right? Okay. Oh, okay. So you know what? Let's go ahead and take a break here and then look into that. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. When we return, we're going to talk about what happens at the trial. Stay with us.
Julie Morgan:
You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, what happens in trial?
Heather Quick:
Trial is a little bit what I've just said. We have a lot of preparation to present the issues. What happens in a trial is you are there with your attorney, your husband's there with his attorney, and we each present evidence and you're going to testify. There's a judge and there's a court reporter. Then whatever witnesses are necessary to come testify will be there as well. I can kind of go through that process a little bit, but I don't want to get ahead of myself on that.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. I just had a random thought, but I'm going to keep it to myself. But I just always wonder what the court reporter is thinking. That's just a random thought. I know I can't be the only one that wonders. What is a court reporter thinking during their job?
Heather Quick:
They hear a lot. I remember back in the day of when you had a jury trial, then you don't really know. You don't know what a judge is going to do either. But it's fun sometimes, and this is back in the day, usually I don't see it as much, but I know you'll look at the court reporter and be like, what do you think? But yes, because they're completely objective, they are just listening and typing.
Julie Morgan:
Listening and typing really fast on a device I have no idea how it works. But anyway, let's move on. So prior to going to court, you really need to work with your attorney. This is a time for you to just kind of almost be joined at the hip. Well, not really, but you know what I mean. You really need to work with your attorney then.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. Because as I indicated in that last segment, there is a lot of strategy. We're now going to court, so now there's procedure, there's rules of evidence. For example, because I've heard this more than once. This is sometimes usually with somebody who's already been or had a hearing and either represented themselves or had another attorney, and they're like, well, I have this doctor's report. It says X, Y, Z, but the judge didn't see it and they don't know. Or I have letters from people saying this about my husband. And those are, and what is important to understand without getting really into it is that is inadmissible. You can't just give the judge pieces of paper that are not authenticated or agreed upon with the other side. So you can't just give him a letter from the teacher saying, "Yeah, the dad never comes to the school and he doesn't care about the kid." That is not appropriate. Or a doctor's note saying something or even a doctor's record.
You have to bring that individual into the courtroom to then testify under oath as to what you want to hear from them. Then they're available for your husband’s attorney to cross examine them. It goes both ways. So that's where I think there's a lot of misunderstanding. You don't just show pieces of paper without having the person who wrote that or said that, say, "Yes, this is what I said." That's called hearsay if you were to just give these pieces of paper. Those are constitutional rights to confront people who say something against you, you have a right to question them.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. I... People do that? Oh, because that's what happens on television.
Heather Quick:
There you go. And they go, look, here's all these things... And because again, it's for the dramatic effect. A lot of those shows are like 30 minutes, and they go through two or three people. So, they've cut it down to five to 10 minutes. That's just not the way it goes in reality. That's part of the planning and getting ready, because if somebody came to me, let's say today, midweek and said, "I've got a trial next week. Can you represent me?" Even though I may say, "yes, we would have to get caught up and all of these things." There's not time. Because there's certain procedure, I talked about procedure. There's certain things that have to be done prior to showing up. One of those things may be send a subpoena to a witness that you need.
You don't just get to do that the day before. People have a life and yes, they may be under court subpoena, but you have to give them some reasonable notice. If you need a witness for your case and they're unavailable, but it's because you didn't subpoena them until the week before the trial, that's probably not going to end well for you. The court's not going to be that sympathetic. That's why sometimes people are like, "Oh my gosh, I've got this going on next week. And can you help me?" Maybe, maybe not. We can't be ready with the evidence that's going to be required in that short period of time. We need to move it out and get a continuance because if we're going to represent you, we're going to be prepared. And that takes time.
Julie Morgan:
And by the way, we're talking about witnesses and evidence in the third segment of the show. So please stay with us. So, Heather, I didn't know that happens. Like, so someone could have a trial seriously scheduled for next week, they don't have an attorney. And then they come to you?
Heather Quick:
That has happened in the past, yes. I have compassion and sympathy, there are a lot of reasons that can happen. Sometimes they have an attorney and they've lost confidence, or they're scared, there's a lot of reasons why that may happen. People can be in denial, and they just are like, oh my gosh, now this is happening, and I can't do this by myself. Or maybe, because there are preliminary things prior to a trial, like a pre-trial, where you come and you tell a judge, "These are how many issues we have. This is how many witnesses, because this is how much time we're going to need." Things like that. Then all of a sudden they recognize, "Oh, wow, I need help with this. I shouldn't be doing this by myself." Or maybe they have a disagreement or are just not on the same page with their attorney. There are many reasons.
Suddenly it's here and they reach out. That's one of the reasons. It's very difficult we do have other hearings on the calendar, other commitments. So it's not that we can push all of those aside and the time it's going to take to properly represent an individual. We wouldn't be able to sign onto a case unless it was continued. Sometimes people are, they're not ready for it to be done. They do things like that and it does postpone a case. There are a lot of things that kind of come into that that cause people to procrastinate, like everybody can procrastinate at any given time.
Heather Quick:
But trials, just to put this in perspective for people who really don't understand, or haven't been a part of it. If you want a trial, say I'm representing you in your divorce and you say, "Okay, I'm ready." We say, okay, we know when we're going to be ready to go to trial. And we're say in June, we probably could get a date depending on the judge, maybe in October.
I know, you're looking puzzled. That's not just the courts are backed up, but yeah, they're busy. These judges, they have a crazy calendar, they have so many things to do. And so when, say in June, we're planning for the time in October, we're essentially saying, we think we might need a day, we think we might need two or three days. I've had ones that it's ended up being six to 10 days. Yeah, I know. You're freaking out, about to jump out of your seat. But depending on the issues and the evidence, it does, it can take time. A lot of time. When you're trying to plan for a judge to give us four or five whole days in a row on their calendar, that takes some planning.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Does the judge say, "Seriously, do you really need that much time?"
Heather Quick:
They do. What I have learned over the years because I had one time, it ended up being long. There was a lot, it went on for a long time and there was a lot of things. But then we would do two days in a row and then next month come back for two more days and then next month. Then it gets broken up, the judge is very diligently taking notes, but that's hard on individuals to not be able to gauge the time. Having done this for so many years and so many experiences I can recognize when and better gauge how much time we're going to need based on not only the issues, but the witnesses. Because that all takes a lot of time.
When we're setting a hearing or getting ready, it takes 30 minutes for everybody to introduce themselves and get moving. Things just take a long time and once you're in there, it just goes by very quickly. The more witnesses you have, because the more issues you have, you most likely need more witnesses to testify and so therefore that takes more time.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Oh, so many questions I want to ask, but I'm trying to stay focused. Okay, so one thing that I noticed, a terminology that I want you to define for me, what is stipulation effects?
Heather Quick:
A stipulation is we agree on things, and it is in writing. Like I said earlier, we have to come to an agreement as to what we agree on and what we disagree on because that's how you really proceed forward. We agree that you were married on March 1st, 1990. We agree on that. We agree there are two children under the age of 18. We agree that these are at issue. Meaning we agree that we have an issue of alimony, we have an issue of how we're going to divide the time with the children, we have an issue as to the amount of support. There is an issue as to what the husband makes. We disagree as to his salary, maybe we disagree as to what they think the wife is able to make.
The list can go on and on, trust me, as far as all those stipulations. But it's very helpful because you are really outlining for the court because they want this, and they want to know what that trial is going to focus on. We agree on maybe 25% of the issues, or we at least agree on facts when they're married. These children are from the marriage, we agree everything's marital, they've been married 25 years. It's all marital. They may have only been married 15 years, but 15 years is long time. One side says, I think there's some non-marital. So we have to really outline that. It does get really specific, but then that is helpful as we're moving during the day of the trial as to what is agreed upon and what is not.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. So the stipulation of facts, that's like a really long, detailed form. It has to be, or long list of things?
Heather Quick:
It usually is lengthy. You're not giving the judge too many details, but enough. Then, you know, as attorneys, let's say in financial cases... And we've talked a little bit about this but there's tax returns, there's bank statements. I’ve talked about evidence, okay. So the bank statements, those are created by the bank. Proper evidence is you have to have a representative from the bank just to say, all these are legitimate and accurate copies that are kept by the bank. Generally, the attorneys agree to that, so we don't have to bring in a witness. The attorneys, we're mindful too, we're trying to be as efficient as possible. We don't want to totally aggravate the judge by taking up unnecessary time and presenting unnecessary witnesses when there are some things we should be able to agree on. These documents, we agree, these are authentic documents. We're not going to argue over whether they're going to be admitted.
That kind of goes in the stipulation, these are the documents we know we can agree on. These are the documents they may have an objection to, we may have an objection to based on relevancy and who's going to testify to them and things of that nature.
Julie Morgan:
So a lot happens in a trial. Because we think about the courtroom, we see it on television, you have the courtroom, you have opening statements and all of that, but there's just a lot to it basically. Yeah.
Heather Quick:
One of the things that I remember learning, I was a young lawyer at this time and Court TV was big. And I'm showing my age because that was big time and I loved it. So clearly I was going to the right place with being in law school and a young prosecutor. But I was shocked by how long it took to authenticate a piece of evidence or, approach the bench. That's different than, of course what we're doing here in family law, because it's not a jury trial. So that is different. We don't have jurors sitting there that sometimes you have to talk to the judge and argue things, but you can't have the jury hear. But there is still the formality and procedure that court takes.
I know that now the networks will show trials and things, so that is real. That will help people see why it does take so long. Of course, it does take longer with the jury trial. In Florida there are no jury trials in divorces and family law, only a judge. But in other states, sometimes there are jury issues within a divorce. That kind of gives you a perspective on how long things take. Anybody who, this is going way back and I was yet way younger then, however. But like the OJ Simpson trial, like that was one of the first ones really ever in my recollection, on TV. And boy, it took a long time. Because it's procedure, like I said, and when your attorneys are advocating vigorously for both sides, they're following procedure. They're holding the other side accountable to follow the procedure in the rules of evidence.
Julie Morgan:
You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law group. When we return, we're going to talk more about what happens in a trial as well as witnesses and evidence, stay with us.
Julie Morgan:
Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, tell me this, how long does it take? Okay, so you said that a trial can take a day, it can take even longer than that. But how long does it take for the judge to rule? Do you get it back right then that day?
Heather Quick:
Not usually, it just depends. No one likes to hear that answer. There used to be some judges on the bench that would rule right then. That is helpful because the parties, we waited all this time to get to trial, we spent this time, we want to know what you decide. However, the longer the trial goes on, the judge wants the time, they've taken notes. Most judges take a lot of notes because they want to remember, of course, and they have the evidence. Nowadays, the longer the trial, the judge is going to say, "I'm going to reflect on this, and I want to review some things and make my decision." That can be because there's a lot of financials, or maybe if there were a lot of issues and witnesses in regard to the children, for example. The judge, what they're trying to do, because this is really the best process, is receive the information.
As the attorneys, and of course, as the parties, the husband and wife, they know this, that the court is receiving all this information. Generally not making a whole lot of decision or coming to conclusions while receiving the evidence. Then they need some time to say, okay, this is everything I heard on both sides. The judge pays a lot of attention to the demeanor of husband and wife throughout the whole thing. We'll have to talk about that on another episode, because that's important, they pay attention. If you're making sounds or rolling your eyes or doing anything in regards to your other sides witness and testimony, I've had judges call somebody out and tell them you better stop making those faces. I know now your face is like, what? What? We're going to go down another rabbit hole and I'm sorry to do this to you, but it's true, it has happened.
Julie Morgan:
Oh, a judge would call me out because my face just tells it all.
Heather Quick:
Oh, I know. Girl, you have to have a lot of training for your trial. I'd be like, "Straight face." But we can get you there, Julie, don't you worry.
Julie Morgan:
Wow. Okay, alrighty. So you mentioned witnesses and evidence. Let's talk about this because you said hearsay, that's, we don't do that in court, but what are some of the witnesses that a lawyer could call for you?
Heather Quick:
So often we will have say, a forensic accountant. That can be for issues related to values of businesses and assets and really understanding the financial. Sometimes when it gets really complicated, that's necessary. Sometimes a property appraiser. If there's a disagreement on value, again, there can be the battle of the experts, and that can happen. See, if somebody owns a business, we really need testimony on the values. Then when we have, the next group is basically when there's children involved, because then you're going to probably have a psychologist. We will have hired that expert and teachers, sometimes neighbors, sometimes coworkers, family, friends. As say, somebody listening to this right now, a woman thinking, "Okay. Oh yeah, I'd have all my friends come say what a bad dad he is." Well, not exactly. Again, that's the attorney's job to say, "Okay, out of all those possible witnesses, which ones do we need to prove the issues at hand? And whose testimony is going to be the most relevant to the issues that we're asking the judge to decide?"
Julie Morgan:
Yeah. Because you just can't have a parade of your friends saying stuff, who's going to be the most compelling person?
Heather Quick:
Right? Sometimes we have doctors as well. I have said on multiple occasions because I'll have a client tell me all these people are going to come testify and what they believe they're going to say. Great, now let me talk to each of them. Because you may have heard, and this is not to say anything, because boy, I hear what I want to hear a lot. I'll go to somebody, and you hear it and it's coming through your lens. But when I'm asking and I'm saying, you're going to be under oath in court and I'm going to ask you these things, sometimes it's not the same. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not. So that's why you're not just bringing a bunch of people to testify. I'm going to talk to them first because they could be more harmful to you and you don't realize it. Because we kind of know the angle, the other side may ask them questions.
Julie Morgan:
I can imagine someone saying, "Well, don't you trust me? I know that this is what so and so is going to say."?
Heather Quick:
Well, that's not really the issue. The issue is, do you want to prevail? So you're going to let me do what I want to do. If you want to achieve your goals and outcomes, I know how to do it. And trust, but verify right? There we go.
Julie Morgan:
And you have to tell the other attorney who you're calling as a witness, right?
Heather Quick:
Yes, yes we do. And there's a timeframe for that. That's where you have to do that ahead of time, but it is on them to send certain procedural documents to inquire as to who you're going to have. Because many times we need to take depositions of witnesses prior to trial. And again, that takes time.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. And it is it also so the other attorneys, so they can figure out how to cross examine that witness so they can prepare themselves for that?
Heather Quick:
Yes, and it's again, the rules and the procedure. It's not like we show up with a bunch of people, and the other side has no idea. The rules require it so there's no ambush. That's where some people think, well, why would I need all this? But you do, again because there's rules of evidence. Sometimes we do need that witness because if we don't, the information may not get presented to the court. You really don't want to be in a situation where it's he said, she said, because then the court is really, really deciding based on the credibility of the two of you and you're nervous and you're testifying. I think it's always best to have some witnesses and other evidence to support your side. If you don't, then I don't see you doing that well in a trial situation.
Julie Morgan:
Tell me about some of that evidence?
Heather Quick:
Well, we've talked earlier on different episodes about the financials, financial affidavit, those documents. Those are absolutely entered in evidence. Many times we have records from the schools and doctors that may come into play. Say for example, child custody is an issue, the time sharing, it can be quite telling when the child's tardy every single time they've been taken to school by the dad. Questions could be asked as to why you let your kid miss school that much? Or you're three months late for your checkup for your eight year old? And it's like, yeah, I spent the first four years of their life at the doctor every month, they're fine. I'm a little bit behind on their well check.
But now we're under a microscope and things, if they show a pattern and show something, you may want it. If there’s a prenup or postnup, of course that's going to be entered. That could be a huge issue in and of itself of course. Agreements, maybe prior parenting plans, emails, texts, and voicemails they’re all included. That's why I say you better watch what you say and watch what you write because that's powerful stuff. I really do love a nasty voicemail from the husband, I will tell you. So just make sure that I'm not hearing ones that you have left, or videos, sometimes photographs and of course, expert reports. That's just like a huge summary of a lot of things that can fall into those.
Julie Morgan:
I learned at an early age, do not write it down if you don't want someone else to see it.
Heather Quick:
Yes, and of course in the age we live in now, nothing goes away. There is no such thing as it got deleted.
Julie Morgan:
Exactly. Exactly. So financial affidavits, you're saying, I only need one for my husband. Right? I don't have to give them one.
Heather Quick:
Well, no, of course you do. Usually, we file more than one during a process because we don't file a case and go to trial that quickly, there's time. As we approach trial, let's say this has been going on like I said, nine to 12 months, things may have changed financially. You may have expenses right now based on where you're living, but that's not where you are going to live after the divorce. We really have to estimate and you have to plan, where are you going to be? What are your expenses going to be? Things after divorce, really a lot of things are going to be more expensive.
Typically one or the other of the spouses are covered by health insurance by one person's employer. Okay, so now you're like, I have to go pay for my own coverage, that's an expense I didn't use to incur. We're all on the family cell phone plan, now I have to do my own. All on the family auto insurance, now I have to have my own, there's a different rent. There's different just, life. It's a lot and not to be overwhelming, that's what we really help people with. But it really helps you assess where you're going to be. If we are making arguments and purporting for support in a number that is not based on what it is going to be, then you're going to end up really feeling as though you don't have enough money. Well, not really feeling, you won't have enough money because you're basing it on costs that are the married life costs, which some may be more expensive, but there's going to be a lot of things individually you are going to be responsible for that we need to consider.
Julie Morgan:
Got it. Got it, Heather, there are so many other places we could go with this. Earlier, you said it seems boring to me. It immediately, there is nothing boring about this because I'm thinking I want to know what happens every step of the way. Yeah. Anything else you want to add?
Heather Quick:
Just that I want to reiterate what I said before that the trial and going before the judge, sometimes it's necessary. So it's not something to be afraid of. It is what it is.If that is the route that we're taking, that's the route we're taking, but you must have an attorney and you must really rely on and understand different legal language, different legal world, a lot of rules that we have to follow. Those are just the rules of procedure. We have all our bar rules and ethics. There's just a lot that we take into consideration. That's another reason why you shouldn't do it by yourself, for sure, represent yourself. But if you have questions about this or know someone who is getting ready to go to trial and they probably don't know any of this. Of course share this with them.
But reach out to us, we can help you. And not the week before, that's just really not the best.Even a month or two before, sometimes honestly there's a lot to do. If there are a lot of issues that need to be decided, it's important that it's done correctly and that's what we do. So I encourage women to reach out to us and we can help them at Florida Women's Law Group.
Julie Morgan:
Sounds good, Heather, it's always great to see you.
Heather Quick:
Always great to see you, Julie. And I am glad I did not bore you because you know I love this stuff.
Julie Morgan:
Not at all. See you next time.
Heather Quick:
All right. Thank you.
Julie Morgan:
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