Physical and Emotional Abuse is a very serious topic, and one that is hard to thoroughly capture on a 1-hour podcast. In this episode, we try to unpack what this abuse looks like, what you should do as a victim, and what resources are available to help.
"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more.
This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different.
Visit us at https://www.womenwinningdivorce.com/ for more resources.
Text us at 904-944-6800 for a copy of Heather's Top 5 Divorce Tips.
If you have questions or a topic you would like Heather to cover, email us at marketing@4womenlaw.com
Women Winning Divorce
Episode 12
Physical and Emotional Abuse
Julie Morgan:
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host, Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week, we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they're facing. Listen in as she discusses issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce.
Julie Morgan:
Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan, and I'm joined by your host, Heather Quick. Hi, Heather. How are you today?
Heather Quick:
I'm doing great, Julie. How are you?
Julie Morgan:
I'm doing quite well. You know, today's topic is... I remember touching on this in the first show, what three months ago it seems like, I think so. Wow.
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
Physical and emotional abuse. This is a serious topic. When we think about domestic violence, how frequently is it reported to police? I don't think it's very frequent, I just feel that way.
Heather Quick:
It's not. An interesting statistic is, last year in the state of Florida there were more than 120,000 cases of domestic violence reported, but countless go unreported. I just would a venture a guess probably 50 to 60% do not get reported. Even just thinking of when I've had conversations with women in our office and they're just not going to go forward with it. They aren't ready, they can't, they're too afraid.
Julie Morgan:
That has to be an emotional conversation. I know I've said this before about other conversations as well, but it has to be an emotional conversation. Kind of draining just to possibly be there talking to someone who doesn't want to take this important step, but really needs to.
Heather Quick:
It is. I think that many times they will be relaying what's been going on in the relationship to one of our attorneys, and it becomes apparent to us very quickly because of our experience and you hear certain things that we can tell the woman, "This is not normal. I want you to understand what I'm hearing, I'm concerned for your safety." Sometimes they know it deep inside, but it takes courage, honestly, to share that with you. I mean, it is confidential, but it still takes a lot to tell somebody.
Then when they can hear that, very often that helps them have the courage to know this is the route maybe, or let's explore what are your options in that instance. Because physical abuse, you know that. You've been hit, pushed, you know that. The threat though and that type of abuse, the verbal and emotional, once it really takes it to that level many women sometimes, it doesn't seem as obvious. So they're like, "Well, maybe that's not..." You convince yourself otherwise.
Julie Morgan:
I know we're going to talk more about emotional abuse in the second segment, but yeah, that just made me want to ask even more questions. Oh boy. So are there any laws in Florida designed to protect victims of abuse?
Heather Quick:
Yes. Florida has firm domestic violence laws designed to protect victims and their children, and there's the criminal side that defines a domestic assault, domestic battery, aggravated battery, and to the extent sexual battery and stalking, can go to kidnapping, false imprisonment. There is a line of strong criminal laws that protect victims. In addition, there are civil laws that provide for an individual, a victim of domestic violence or abuse, or who is in fear for their life, to get an injunction for protection against domestic violence.
Julie Morgan:
But that has to be a big step?
Heather Quick:
Indeed it is, and it's scary because it very often, most of the time, I mean, these things take place within your home. Nobody's around, there's no witnesses, and they've told you, as abusers frequently do, no one's going to believe you. Nobody's going to believe what you say, it's my word against your word, and you don't know what you're doing and you're crazy, or unstable, things of that nature. Then you believe that, and that also is your fear, "Who's even going to believe me if I were to come forward on this?"
Julie Morgan:
And that is a form of psychological abuse.
Heather Quick:
Oh, absolutely. Yes.
Julie Morgan:
So you think about that, and I know I'm just going off into different areas, but really it is, because you're abusing them physically and then psychologically you're telling them, "Oh, no one's going to believe you." That also has an emotional component as well.at
Heather Quick:
It does. I'm sure when we touch on it, on the emotional side, and many people have heard the term, gas lighting as associated with narcissists, which we talk a lot about that. It's a real thing, and you, within your own home and living with this person think maybe you are going crazy, and you start to believe what they tell you about a situation, about yourself.
Within cases that have this type of abuse, it's very typical that you have become isolated. Your husband, and with this domestic violence and domestic abuse, that can be for a boyfriend, anyone you have a romantic relationship with, so you don't even have to be married necessarily. Part of that and what happens with that is isolation from your family and friends because they are trying to remove you from those contacts.
When you go out with your friends, what you have to deal with when you get back is just so uncomfortable that you just stop doing it. Now all of a sudden you are with this person all the time, or hear this all the time that it's hard for you to see that it's just not true or how abusive it is.
Julie Morgan:
Oh, so many topics right there. But when you think about it, everything becomes a cycle, really. This can be a vicious cycle that just continues for generations. The person who it started with, they don't even realize that this could happen, but that's how important it is to leave.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. In all abusive and even just dysfunctional relationships, what women sometimes don't, or they don't want to recognize is what do you think you're teaching your children? We all, our first lesson in relationships is the one of our parents. How is it not? That's where you live. That's what you see day in, day out. That's what girls learn to say, oh, okay. That's what I accept. This is what I'll put up with and that's what boys learn is that's how I treat a woman, period. I mean, that's just common sense if anybody thinks about it. It's true.
Julie Morgan:
So why do people stay? Why would someone stay in an abusive relationship? Why not just leave?
Heather Quick:
Financially it can be very scary and you may have no real understanding or access to funds and feel like, where would I go. One, where would I go? How would I pay to go anywhere? He’s told me he will kill me if I leave. Now, is that a drastic scenario? It's more common than you would think. I had this explained to me by an amazing woman who is with the police force but was a victim of domestic violence. What she said is when he choked her to the point that she thought she might die, that didn't give her the strength to be like, I have to get out of here. He is going to kill me. She's like, I knew he could do it; he could really do this to me. That’s when she knew she had to leave. That was eye-opening to me, the severity of the psychological hold in what that fear is like, okay, it's so bad here. But now I know, I know he can definitely go through with it. He very well may, that became a barrier as well. I mean, yes, she eventually got out and talks about it and helps people so much. But that and I see it in your face, because I felt the same way when I heard that, I thought, wow, I would never have thought that.
Julie Morgan:
No, I would never have thought that would be that extra level of fear that he was counting on.
Heather Quick:
Right. Because you and I are thinking, okay, well now this is it, this was so bad. I got to go. Mm, no, not necessarily, because of just in that relationship and being so afraid that leaving will be even worse and you really will be dead. It's very real. It's behind closed doors and it can happen across all socioeconomic, racial, religious, it's everywhere. There is not one facet of society that is exempt from this.
Julie Morgan:
You know what, I'm glad you said that because some people believe otherwise that, oh, something like this could never affect someone that lives door to me.
Heather Quick:
That is what people think and they are wrong. They're very mistaken. Because that's the truth, Julie, all this stuff we talked about for these months, it's happening all around us and because it's in their home and people don't share that and they're afraid and there's so much, you just never, never know. After doing this for so many years, I know that for a fact. You just never know what's going on with a person, their relationship, you don't, it's very complex.
Julie Morgan:
Yeah. Those four walls are very thick and people who have never been in an abusive relationship, they're not going to understand why you won't leave. They really don’t, they just won't.
Heather Quick:
Correct. Until you have become educated on how deeply psychological this is in this cycle of violence, you can't understand, you just can't and that's where it takes even more strength. For an individual, she's like, I don't know that people will understand and what they'll think. You just want to protect yourself. Many times they're shocked, even your own family is shocked by what they have learned. They find it hard to believe that's where, oh man, you want to talk about where counseling and just so much help because it takes so much courage just physically to walk out, but just the emotional and to be able to go through with it, it's very, it's a lot, it's a lot. You really need all the right support and the support of a counselor specifically for victims of domestic violence and abuse.
Julie Morgan:
You know what I thought about, it's difficult to say, you know what, I would like to end this relationship. I want to get a divorce. But when you add this component to it, it's even more difficult.
Heather Quick:
Yes.
Julie Morgan:
But it may seem like that it should be even easier because you really have a reason, a life or death reason.
Heather Quick:
It does to those of us who haven't had that experience. That's what I've learned and that's who it seems easy for, but we are operating from an objective, rational decision making, not intertwined emotionally, romantically, and been abused to this point for so long. An additional thing that I want to add that I have learned in my experience in doing this is for a woman who has been in an abusive relationship over time, and where there's this type of severe physical abuse, many times in order to cope, they do turn towards alcohol or maybe prescription medications. Because it's very difficult to live in the situation they are in and that then also weakens their ability, and their self-esteem has been eroded. Many times they then present, even to police officers, as unreliable because maybe they have been drinking. There's still so much lack of understanding as to how complex this is that I share that because I understand. I think anybody, when you put it in that ... they're re trying to cope. Now that becomes another issue that then the abuser uses against them.
Julie Morgan:
Hmm. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, what is emotional abuse?
Heather Quick:
When we look at emotional abuse, it is really just as destructive as physical abuse. Unlike like bruises or broken bones, which we would all agree is clearly an indication of abuse, this damage is not as visible and it attacks the victim's self-esteem, confidence, overall mental health so that they even sometimes have a hard time verbalizing the abuse. They've just been so controlled and broken down.
Julie Morgan:
The abuse you don't necessarily see.
Heather Quick:
Right. Even the victim doesn't see. Let's be clear of that because not even other people see the other physical abuse, but you, yourself, you don't see bruises or marks.
Julie Morgan:
Wait a minute, she may not know that she's being emotionally abused?
Heather Quick:
There's a part somewhere in her, I would believe, that knows this isn't right. This isn't good for me, but very often not, and very often just because it's too scary to even see that, see it as that.
Julie Morgan:
I had no idea. One is bad, but this seems like also, I don't know. You don't want either, absolutely not. But this seems like another level because something you don't see, possibly, and other people, they won't see it. Then it could go on for even longer because you don't see it.
Heather Quick:
Right, and at first, it's subtle and then it escalates. Many times, because it's really all about control and intimidation, and so very often it didn't start like that. No, because who wants to go on a first date with somebody who acts like that and controlling them or whatever. It starts with, you're the center of their world and you're flowered with attention and all of this wonderfulness and you're the best thing ever. I want to be with you all the time and you're great. So it really feeds to your ego and even maybe too, where there's a lower self-esteem, but they are just doting on you. It's wonderful, it's wonderful. Probably to the excess, you're like, this is kind of a lot, but in the right situation, you love it. You just think you're the best thing ever and he's obsessed with you, but that obsession is not good. Because over time it turns and becomes control and a lot of times, jealousy and things. Then it evolves into so much more of a negative, abusive type situation.
Julie Morgan:
That sounds like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Heather Quick:
Yes. Usually they are Mr. Charismatic, can be very successful and the life of the party, very on outside the home and getting all this attention because they're feeding all their ego and they're very self-absorbed, but then at home it's just a completely different situation.
Julie Morgan:
So how does emotional abuse affect them? I know you mentioned self-esteem. Anything else?
Heather Quick:
Well, yeah, so the self-esteem part, I think, is huge because it's this feeling of insecurity and worthlessness, independency. That's the power kind of play that evolves with the relationship. You may start out equal dating, whatever, but it's this power play to create a dependency and to expose a vulnerability so that then you feel trapped. It slowly erodes away everything that you had in outside support to where now you're completely reliant upon this individual. I've seen situations where they are, and we're not going to talk about the financial aspect, but it's another way to control somebody so that it always tends to show up, to the point where they just give you a credit card that they can turn on, turn off, turn on, turn off. You don't have any access to like the banking or whatever. Again, creating a complete dependency and such a feeling of vulnerability.
Julie Morgan:
What are some of the examples of emotional abuse?
Heather Quick:
Part of what we touched on in controlling their daily life, from where are you going or when will you be back? I want to know where you are all the time. It's very easy nowadays with our iPhones and there's some secret ways they can kind of go in and put that in your phone so they always know where you are. Again, it builds slowly, but then they'll be like, what'd you buy at Target? You get a call and you're like, what are you talking about? And they're tracking, getting alerts on the debit or credit card or they see where your car is.
Isolating you from friends and family. They kind of will create outbursts with maybe your family members and then tell you, I'm not going over there anymore, or we're not going to see them. It's shocking the amount of women that will then remove themselves from those relationships and distance themselves from their own family.
Julie Morgan:
That was just something that he created so he can get you alone and you don't interact with them.
Heather Quick:
Correct. You don't have a source of support. Many times, not always, many times your family can clearly see it. Then they may say, you need to leave, which then you're in such denial and not seeing what's happening and you may get mad, but they really are there for most of the people. It's just you think you've burned that bridge with your own family and you may have, everybody's situation's different. But they can see it clearly, it gets to a point eventually your family usually can, and then you've been completely isolated from them. Same with your friends. You'll find you don't really have friends that you hang out with. It’s only together and where he can kind of control that situation very much. This goes back to the self-esteem, you'll see the insult and criticizing your appearance, what you do, your interests, even like, oh, this house is a mess. These clothes, you look terrible. You're overweight, you ought to exercise, mean, verbally abusive. It goes with everything else, eroding that self-esteem.
Julie Morgan:
I think about that and you could be doing all you can. So the clothes may be right next to the washer and dryer right now at this moment. But it's because you're doing laundry, not because the house is just filthy. It's because I'm doing laundry right now. But then you could think, oh no, the house is filthy.
Heather Quick:
Because he's eroded into your brain and that's where you're not thinking normally, you're not in a normal situation. It tends to then, he's always the victim in a lot of these things and it's your fault. It's so destructive, it permeates through everything. Then he even may want you to dress up and tell you, you look good, but then they're going to accuse you of flirting or of cheating and you always are having to prove yourself. It is very exhausting for women in these situations, because again, it didn't happen overnight. It builds over time. It's kind of like, Julie, they wake up one day and maybe something happens. They're friends, somebody actually gets them to our office. They start telling, they don't have to get very far into the story, and then I can really say, and this happens and this happens and this happens. They're like, oh my gosh, how did you know? They are so in it, it's harder to see it. A lot of times they will describe it, that home life is walking on eggshells. Never know when he's going to go off at you, the kids, or anything. You just never know.
Julie Morgan:
Something you just mentioned. You said, never know when they'll go off on you or the kids. When you mess with a woman's child, that's something that really makes them say, oh no, no, no, no.
Heather Quick:
I think for most women they will stay in that thinking, well, I'll just continue to take it as long as he doesn't start this with the kids. But there is, because they're using the threats, the intimidation, the fear, there's the sense of that in the house. Most often that, I would say would be the most likely time when that's what helps women really, they might not get out for themselves, but they will for the kids. They'll remove themselves from that situation because they've taken it long enough. But now that it's turning and they'll see that verbal abuse with the children, they will realize, okay, this has got to stop. I've got to get out of this situation.
Julie Morgan:
When you talk to someone, when someone comes into your office, okay, well, let's kind of go back. Emotional abuse. Is it usually someone else who said, you should go talk to someone as opposed with domestic violence, the physical abuse. Does it take that person to do it? Does that make sense? The person that prompts them to come into your office, is it themselves for physical abuse, in someone else for emotional abuse, or does it just vary? Because it's just-
Heather Quick:
I think it varies. And I think it varies on the length of time of the abuse and usually there is an intervening event and that could just be like an awakening. Like, I can't do this. Usually there's an intervening event, and at that point, it's too much to bear the pain versus maybe the comfort that you are perceiving, the certainty of the relationship and knowing, Hey, I don't have to worry about money or whatnot. All really false, but that's what we make ourselves believe. Something happens to make them, to cause them to take action. It's usually, now there's something they're even more afraid of. That, for most humans, that's what really, because it's a barrier, it's a fear barrier that they are overcoming. It is a big step to call a divorce attorney and then come make an appointment and show up.
It takes a lot of courage because most women think about this for years, but now they've gone and taken that first step, and it takes a lot. So some things usually happen to give them that courage and it could just be their own conviction, like finally something happen. They've seen something, they've experienced something to say, I've got to go. Or if it's a friend, maybe they went and a friend shared with them, "I know what's going on. You're not alone. We support you."
Julie Morgan:
That's their aha moment for lack of a better way to put it.
Heather Quick:
I think that's a good way to explain it.
Julie Morgan:
Random question, how many no shows do you have? I feel like that number, I wonder. You don't have to answer that because you may not be able to answer that. But I just thought about that, because divorce in itself is just such a big step. And so I think calling a divorce attorney and then saying, "Oh no, okay. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this." And I just don't show up. I just don't show up. All right, don't mind me.
Heather Quick:
We have a system of process with the individuals on the phone to really work them through that because we just don't have somebody on standby who can meet with people who really need to be met with and lose time on the calendar. Somebody had to wait a week because we have somebody who said they wanted to come in and don't show up. So we really spend a lot of time with women who call our office and make sure that they understand there are very few spots to come in and meet with us and those are reserved for individuals who are really ready to take that step and give them, hopefully, a little bit of courage that they can do this for themselves and their family.
Julie Morgan:
You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Heather, let's talk about domestic violence and divorce. Does domestic violence have any impact on divorce itself?
Heather Quick:
It does. It does very much so in many different facets, but primarily what I really do want any woman listening to this to understand is that if there is an issue of domestic violence, we take that very seriously as do the courts. It is not a strategy in a divorce to use maybe an allegation of domestic violence. I would never propose, I take it very seriously, and it's absolutely inappropriate to waste any type of court resources for something that's not real. But that being said, we have been doing this for many years. I started my law career as a prosecutor and spent time in the domestic violence division so I do have a lot of education and I know it from many different angles, I would say, and how it works in the court system, but also in divorce.
Our attorneys are trained that way as well. When we're talking to you and we hear what we believe to be that, we are going to go to down that road with the client, like I said, even if they don't bring it up and if our client says, well, I don't really want to say anything unless we have to. I will tell you that I don't do that in our office because if it's real and this is happening, we address it in the ways we have the availability in the legal system or we don't. Because this isn't something well, we'll use it if we need it. It doesn't work that way because we talked about it earlier in the case of domestic violence and these issues behind closed door, he said, she said, that's a credibility issue. If you are afraid for your safety, then you are afraid and we bring that forward. We don't use that later to negotiate. So that's the first thing, because that is very, very important.
Many people might think, oh, that's why they filed, and there may be individuals. They're certainly in every aspect of the law and all kind of areas, people find an angle and think that would be appropriate. But we really advocate that if this is an issue in your marriage, we need to address this first and then proceed forward with the divorce. How it affects or comes into play in the divorce, like I said, will vary because there's children. How does that affect the economics? And those will be case by case basis. We can dive into that a little bit deeper based on some of those areas.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Okay. What if someone says, I just don't want to use this at all. I understand if I don't talk about it or we don't bring this up at the beginning, we're not going to bring it up at the end, but I just don't want to use this at all. I don't want my children to find out or that type of thing. What if someone says that?
Heather Quick:
Well, they have to want to protect themselves and move forward. I would respect that and if they just want to move forward with a divorce and then hopefully we get them into counseling to where they can deal with it. If they say, well, I'm really not afraid. That's a big part of an injunction that they have to be afraid. So if they're not afraid, okay, maybe you guys have been duking it out. I don't mean to minimize that, but they're like, I'm not afraid of them. I have to respect that as the person talking to me and say, okay, well then that would not be appropriate, but please be careful at home as we're going through this divorce situation. If you two aren't separated, he could come after you for criminal domestic violence and or an injunction. So that's also a situation that has happened and they, the man, can turn it on the woman. We try to say, be smart, be very careful if two are going to remain in the same house and there's this volatility.
Julie Morgan:
I didn't even think about that. He could flip it, but-
Heather Quick:
Yep.
Julie Morgan:
Oh, wow. Okay. My first thought is that someone would say, "Yes, I'm afraid", but there are people that say, "No, I'm good. I'm not scared of him."
Heather Quick:
Right. And that is a part of an element. I know you're thinking, what, but yes, it's true.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. Yeah. I wasn't expecting you to say that. I really was not. I just, oh boy. Okay. What if someone says, I am afraid and they don't have a place to go. What happens then?
Heather Quick:
Well, we have, in the northeast Florida area within these multiple counties, there are many shelters. There are options. They may not be your favorite option. They may be what you want, but there are some options that we absolutely would refer them to.
Julie Morgan:
Okay. That's good. That's good. Can someone force their spouse out of the house?
Heather Quick:
Well, with an injunction. So in the domestic violence, if you are granted an injunction, usually you are able to stay in the home and they have to leave. They can't come within 500 feet of you. And so that's why I do tell women to be very careful because he may very well go file one and you're out of the house and here you thought, no, we're just going to kind of let all that stuff go and just get divorced. So that can be a real twist.
Julie Morgan:
You really walk them through this and explain to them, this is what could happen. Be mindful.
Heather Quick:
Yeah, absolutely. We have the experience that we can tell, these are situations I've seen. You come back and say, "Hey Heather, you were right", After you got arrested and an injunction on you. I don't really want to hear that. I want to hear you followed us from the get go and didn't end up in that situation, which can happen really so very easily. Something that you would say, well I threw a pencil at him and I was aggravated, but then the police come because he calls the police or you had called the police on what he did. And I'm not telling you not to be truthful, but there's a reason we do have our constitutional rights. And you just kind of tell the police what happened, you may be very well be the one in the backseat of the police car. That's all I'm going to say. And it's very often that that can happen because people are naive and they are not appreciating the levels to which their spouse may go.
Julie Morgan:
All right. This is a thought and I think I know the answer. So if I get arrested, I can't call you, right, because you're not a criminal attorney?
Heather Quick:
That is correct. We will refer you to a criminal attorney for sure. But yeah, we really won't be involved in that. We'll help you through the injunction. We'll work with a criminal attorney on that matter. But it's a rare, well, I don't know how rare it is, Julie, but again, it's just like, you don't know what you know. And too often women are much too naive about the realities of what this guy is going to do and is willing to do. And that's where we try to say, "Listen, I don't know him, you do, but these are things that could happen. Be mindful, be smart. It's not a time to really be nice. Nice has nothing to do with it. Be smart." And that's the way I feel about it. And particularly when there are children involved and all of a sudden, if he manipulates the system gets injunction and you're out of the house and he's there with kids, okay, now we're starting a divorce and yeah, that puts you at a disadvantage.
Julie Morgan:
Sure it does. Wow. You're in a line of work that, in someone's personal life, it may feel good to say, I told you so, but it does not feel good for you to say, I told you so. Which I know you wouldn't say that, but when someone does not heed the advice that you're giving them, really, I told you, so I told you that this was going to happen and you do not have to respond any of this, but that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking. Those are my thoughts.
Heather Quick:
Clients say, you told me this would happen. Like I said, that's not a conversation I want to have. We're having a conversation so that I can help you prepare yourself based on my experience in this area. Don't know the two of you involved, but usually we know enough to say look out for this. For the women who heed that advice, they appreciate it. For the women who don't though, they do appreciate that I told them, and they certainly do come back and say, now please help me because I didn't listen. I think that you don't always hear it. I know we've talked about that. Julie, depending on where you are in the process, and there's just so much that going on psychologically, you're just not ready to hear that. So you don't and tune it out and you don't do it and you think, no, this is different. We're different. And so that's the interesting, ever-changing part about what we do because humans are humans and they're going to do what they're going to do. Because they are like, no, I believe this would be a better way to do it, then have at it.
Julie Morgan:
How does this affect or how could it affect alimony?
Heather Quick:
From a perspective of when we talk about domestic violence and divorce, it is a no-fault state. Just because the worse you are doesn't mean that is necessarily going to mean you would have to pay more alimony or anything like that. But generally emotional abuse situations and even in physical abuse, because the nature of all that and everything we discussed, many times, many women do not work outside the home or limited. They are going to need alimony. That is going to be a reason that they didn't work. But also when we look at alimony, we look at your needs, and of course, their ability to pay. But a lot of therapy might be necessary, there may be a lot of things that really are more necessary that go into your need. Certainly, in the interest of children, it does play a significant role if there is domestic violence, because now we're talking about the best interest of the children and their safety and how does the court order time sharing, how are you and your husband, ex-husband, going to exchange the children when he is not allowed to contact you and you have a protective order. So lot more at issue.
Julie Morgan:
I was wondering about that. We brought this up in an earlier show, dealing with time sharing. You can go to our website, womenwinningdivorce.com, to listen to that episode. So in this situation I was thinking also, all right, so there may be another party involved in the time sharing as far as making sure that the child is safe, like an extra person going along on the outing, or no overnight visits, that type of thing.
Heather Quick:
Right. It could impact, particularly if there is evidence and findings that the children are at risk. So then yes, we would be looking potentially at supervised visitation, maybe not overnights, things that absolutely would be different than the norm of what's typically ordered.
Julie Morgan:
Bottom line, if you're going through this domestic violence or emotional abuse, share this with your attorney. It's confidential, so it's okay to share.
Heather Quick:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's what we're here for. We need to know this stuff so we can advise you and you're missing out on some valuable advice and insight on your particular situation, if you don't share these things.
Julie Morgan:
Anything else you want to add on this topic?
Heather Quick:
I really think we've covered it. Of course, we could continue talking on so many of these issues, but I'm hopeful listeners got some good information today and maybe some eye opening things for women who might recognize some of these things in a friend or a family member. That allows them some education and grace for where maybe those women are.
Julie Morgan:
That is so true. This is for more than the person that is going through divorce. It's also for her friend as well.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Julie Morgan:
Heather, our time here is done in more ways than one. I definitely, I want to say goodbye to our listeners and you. This is my last show. It hurts, but you're going to be in good hands.
Heather Quick:
Well, Julie, we are going to miss you. I'm going to miss our conversations. And I know the listeners will absolutely miss your lovely, soothing voice and your insightful questions. And just so that the listeners know, we have done everything we can to bribe Julie and keep her here, but she has got bigger and better and greater adventures ahead of her. So maybe one day she'll come visit.
Julie Morgan:
That is too funny.
Heather Quick:
Thank you. Thank you, Julie.
Julie Morgan:
Thank you. Thank you for listening to Women Winning Divorce. We hope you found information to help you navigate your divorce. If you like our show, please take the time to subscribe and provide a five star review. If you need more information, please visit our website at womenwinningdivorce.com, where you will find previous episodes and other helpful content. Join us next week as we continue our journey of women winning divorce.