“Divorce can unlock people and help them... live the life they have wanted to be living.” – Meghan Freed, Esq. In this episode, Meghan Freed, Esq., joins Heather Quick, Owner & Attorney of Florida Women's Law Group, to discuss the divorce timeline and managing expectations. They speak about the divorce timeline overview and contested vs uncontested divorce along with mediation, trial and expectations. ********** About Our Guest Meghan Freed is the Managing Co-Partner and Attorney of Freed Marcroft in Connecticut. She is widely recognized for her leadership in the legal community. Meghan’s law firm devotes its practice exclusively to divorce and family law, but she is also particularly experienced with alternative dispute resolution and has supplemented her formal legal education with advanced training in mediation and collaborative law as well through Harvard Law School’s Program on Negotiation.
Meghan’s Social Media Links:
Heather Quick:
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce. I am your host, Heather Quick. I'm an attorney, entrepreneur, author, and founder of Florida Women's Law Group, the only divorce firm for women by women. I love thinking big, thinking outside the box, creating creative solutions for women, and empowering women to win in all aspects of their life. In each episode of this show, I will discuss how to navigate the divorce process, come out stronger and empowered on the other side.
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce. Each week we discuss issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues, to provide insight into the journey of women winning divorce. I'm Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. Today I'm being joined by Meghan Freed, managing co-partner and attorney at Freed Marcroft in Connecticut. Welcome to the show, Meghan.
Meghan Freed:
Thanks, Heather. I am so pleased to be here with you.
Heather Quick:
I am so happy to have you, and we're going to have a great show today. First, I've got to introduce you to the audience, and I want them to learn a little bit about you. Why don't you tell us first a little bit about why you do family law? What do you love about it?
Meghan Freed:
We, Kristen Marcroft and I, opened Freed Marcroft back in 2012, and we had more of a general civil practice. As we continued to do that, what we both realized, for different reasons, she has her reasons and I have mine, but they worked really well together, we really found that what most excited us every day was working with clients in divorce and family law. One of the reasons for that for both of us is getting to participate in someone's transformation from the position that they were in when they arrived to us, to seeing what they become through the divorce process, and really even more than that, after, what their lives become. One of the things we say is that the divorce itself can really unlock people and let them live a life that they may not have even previously thought of, what's really the life that they are truly called to be living.
Heather Quick:
That is wonderful and inspiring, and I find it so true. I think that those of us who really do love family law, it's because of what we see that people are able to overcome and transition to.
Meghan Freed:
Right.
Heather Quick:
That's inspiring. More than just being a family lawyer, you have done advanced training in mediation and collaborative law?
Meghan Freed:
Yes. That's really interesting. Mediation and collaborative law are the two, at least where we practice in Connecticut, the most common forms of alternative dispute resolution, or ADR. As Heather well knows, that's the difference between letting a judge decide things in your case or really setting out intentionally to make sure that your divorce stays out of court. Unlike a lot of people that practice mediation, collaborative law, our firm also offers litigation. The reason for that is that we want to be able to give people the type of the divorce that will work the best for them. For collaboration or for mediation, a lot of times if you decide to opt out of litigation entirely, what that means is that both people have to agree to opt out. What we've learned is although mediation and collaborative law are fantastic tools to have a totally out-of-court divorce, if you don't both agree at the beginning, you can still have a really, really wonderful litigated divorce where you do reach agreements outside of court and do keep the acrimony down. So that's why we do all three, practice in all three modalities.
Heather Quick:
That makes so much sense because, at the end of the day, as intense as the divorce process is, and that divorce timeline, which we're going to talk about, it's really a snapshot in your life. And so then helping them see that there is life afterwards and some different ways we can attack or reach an agreement, be creative, will serve you in the long run, for sure.
Meghan Freed:
I really think when we talk about divorce, that word means multiple things. It means the idea of becoming unmarried. It also means the thing itself, the sausage factory of how we interact with the court or with these alternative processes to get the actual thing done. For me, I want to deliver the best possible experience we can for our clients, but the divorce process itself, it's just not going to be the most fun you've ever had in your life. It's about getting through it intact in a way that you can look back at and be proud of. But really the focus is like what's on the other side of this? What do you want to do next?
Heather Quick:
Exactly. I do agree completely with that. You got to get through it. You don't get over it and can't go around, you just got to go through it, grow from it. I think this conversation is going to be really interesting for both of us, because I want to talk about the divorce timeline and then also add in there, we have a couple of things that kind of throw a wrench in it, like contested divorce, that's how they're defined in Florida, or uncontested divorce.
Meghan Freed:
Oh, I can't wait to talk about this, because it's very different in Connecticut, and I think it's so fun to talk about how different states approach that.
Heather Quick:
I agree, and it's true. With one of our other guests, they made fun of me. They're like, "Yeah, so Heather, [inaudible 00:06:00] tell them it could be so much worse." We're stuck in the state where we have to get divorced, but the number one question we get asked, and it's certainly what every client is thinking, is how long will my divorce take?
Meghan Freed:
Right, because that's really, it goes back to what we were just talking about, doesn't it? I mean this idea of I don't want to be in the divorce process forever. Can you please tell me when I can exit it? So the answer in Connecticut is that... Well, I'll give you the Freed Marcroft answer. Our average divorce is between 9 and 12 months. That's the average. We have divorces that take more than a year. We have very few divorces that take multiple years. And then we have some divorces that take less than nine months, but not that many of them. If you're thinking that you're going to get it done in under nine months, you're probably going to be a little bit disappointed. Just not very common.
Heather Quick:
It, of course, always depends. Our [inaudible 00:07:09] average is about 9 to 12, 12 to 18, say, average. For us, that's the average divorce that probably ends either in mediation or a trial, because mediation is required.
Meghan Freed:
Which we don't have.
Heather Quick:
So we're not offering you a special, "Ooh, you want to try this?" No, you have to do it. It's not an option in Florida, but it's very effective, and the majority of our cases do settle. We can have cases that can wrap up really quickly if both parties want that and do what is necessary for that to happen.
Meghan Freed:
Whenever it's that, whenever you wind up in those divorces where it's like it really gets done in three months, four months, five months, six months, it's almost always the level, the party's ability to communicate with each other and agree, is really huge. Because one of the things I think some people don't realize is that, yeah, during divorce your lawyers are going to communicate with each other, but the acrimony in the relationship lends itself to the lawyer's ability to negotiate on your behalf. So when I say things like your ability to reach agreements, that might be sitting down at the kitchen table, or it might be talking with each other. I think one of the things in Connecticut, because we don't have two tracks that you can file with. When you file a divorce in Connecticut, you don't file an uncontested divorce or a contested divorce, you just file a divorce.
At the beginning, there's a little bit of a dance that happens where we try to figure out how is this going to resolve itself? Are we going to be able to reach agreements early? Or is it going to take a while, and things have to be more formal before we can really start to negotiate? Like a mediated divorce that, in Connecticut, if you decide to stay out of court and the two of you work with a mediator as opposed to use mediation down the line as a tool to resolve your case, if you decide to focus and have mediation be your process, those are cases that are more likely generally to resolve more quickly because the parties are committed to talking to each other and reaching resolutions outside of court.
Heather Quick:
I think that at the end of the day, it comes down to that, and it is a two-person... It took two to make the marriage work, two to make it break up, if you want it done [inaudible 00:09:41].
Meghan Freed:
And you're divorcing the same person you were married to.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. So don't expect them to change a whole lot during this process. For ours, I think it's misleading when it says in Florida, like an uncontested divorce, it is just a way to maybe pay a little less of a filing fee. I [inaudible 00:10:01].
Meghan Freed:
Oh, really.
Heather Quick:
But it's also for parties usually who are unrepresented. Because they fill out all this paperwork, Florida has a lot of forms online and available to folks, which can be deceiving as if it's that simple, but that would be filed in that way with their agreement. So I think with those, we don't see a lot of them, because we just file it as the divorce but then probably have come to an agreement. The parties have to come to an agreement, we're just essentially writing that down and formalizing everything.
Meghan Freed:
Pointing out things they may not have thought of when they reached the agreement.
Heather Quick:
Correct, correct. The thing is that, and I've used the example before, because we all know it as lawyers, that our clients just don't know. And that's why the timeline is so important to talk about some of the variables, because many of our clients, this is their first interaction with a lawyer and legal process, and all of their other experiences, TV and movies, and you know have 60-minute Law & Order, my favorite example, where the crime happens, they investigate it, prosecute, and goes to jail.
Meghan Freed:
[inaudible 00:11:17] trial.
Heather Quick:
And done in an hour, with commercial breaks. So it's not unrealistic to think that people are like, why would this take so long? It's like, well, you've been married for 10 years and you've wanted a divorce for four, so I'm not sure why you think I can do this in 30 days. There's a lot of history, a lot of stuff to look at. I do think, for many folks, that the amount of time it does take can be therapeutic, because not everybody is ready for the divorce when the other one filed. There's all that emotion.
Meghan Freed:
True.
Heather Quick:
The journey that sometimes people need the time to go.
Meghan Freed:
I think that's a really good point, and I don't think we talk about that enough, because the focus is so often how quickly can I get through this? That's important, but the other thing is, the things that you care about in the beginning of the divorce aren't necessarily the things that are your top priorities as you process it. You want to take the time also to make sure... A divorce is a way to set up your post divorce life. So, in part, you want to make sure you're setting up the right post divorce life. We've had clients who have thought... They're the leaning-in spouse, they're the one that's into the marriage and is disappointed with the news that their spouse is ready to proceed with a divorce. So when you're in that position and everything that's happening isn't really our idea, you aren't as far along in processing it.
For example, you might think, "Heck, I can't imagine leaving my home." Well, the most important thing is that I keep my home and there's not disruption to my kids, et cetera, et cetera, all the good reasons that people have for keeping their home. But as your divorce [inaudible 00:13:08] on and you begin to process things differently, you might discover... Actually, it's almost like your eyes might open to different things. Maybe you don't want to live in the house that you lived in with your ex. Maybe you want something smaller that's easier to take care of. Maybe you don't want to have the same caring costs of a large home. Really, if you give yourself a little beat to make sure that you really decide what you want, I think it helps us as lawyers get a much more satisfactory holistic result for people.
Heather Quick:
It's just like if they come in your office and say they're ready, and this is everything they want, it's very hard, especially when they're in the moment, to think about where they're going to be three years from now, and that some of these things they just want to walk away from, they maybe haven't thought all that through.
Meghan Freed:
It goes the reverse way, too. It's not just what you want, it's what you think you don't want.
Heather Quick:
Right, and it goes both ways. Maybe you don't want this house and up-keeping the cost and things like that. So I think that part of that process can allow for our clients to have a little more clarity and, like you said, their eyes open and they see things differently as they begin to heal a little and go through the process.
Meghan Freed:
I also think, Heather, when you were talking about your clients who might come in early with what they think is an agreement, and they're really looking to make sure it's a legally sound agreement that the judge will order and enforce. I think one of the reasons that it's so great to work with someone like you, is that often, what's the old adage? We don't know what we don't know. For example, one thing we have clients think about is... A client might say something like, "Well, I think we've been married a long time. I think it's fair if I just get 50% of everything. I want half of all of the pieces of the marital estate." But when you're working with sophisticated experienced divorce counsel, what you can learn is, wait, 50% of what? What's equal? Am I under retirement age? Do I want cash? Do I want to take withdrawals from retirement accounts? How can we structure the pie? I'm going to use a Harvard School of Negotiation term. How do we structure the pie so we're actually expanding it for everyone involved, not just dividing it?
Heather Quick:
Such a lovely way to phrase that. You can tell you've done collaborative and mediation. It's just such nice, nice way to phrase it. I think that's a great segue. We're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to talk about a few things as it relates to the timing of the divorce, because I want to know if there's any differences between Florida and Connecticut, say in, have to wait too long after filing.
Meghan Freed:
Oh yeah, fun.
Heather Quick:
When we come back, we'll start with that.
Welcome back, Meghan. For those of you listening earlier, Meghan and I were discussing the timeline for a divorce, and really a lot of things that go into that that makes it seem so long. Because for the lawyers, we're like, "Oh, 9 to 12 months, piece of cake," and for the individuals going through it, and for maybe women listening today, they're thinking, "What? [inaudible 00:16:43] long."
Meghan Freed:
That's a whole year of school.
Heather Quick:
It is. It seems so long. However, through that process, a lot happens that has to happen, most often. But I had a couple questions for you. One, is there any waiting period or period of separation that's required when you're in Connecticut?
Meghan Freed:
We have a statute that requires a 90-day wait. And when that starts running is a little bit weird calculation that we do for clients. It's not a clear date, but it winds up being like a hundred or 110 days from when you file. But we liberalized our divorce statutes back a few years ago. So now what parties can do is waive the statutory requirement for that 90-day wait. Basically, what you do is file a petition with the court asking the court to waive the 90-day requirement, which in most cases the court is very willing to do.
It's a rule, but you can ask that the rule not apply to you. Like we just talked about, though, most divorces do take longer than 90 days. So sometimes you don't even have to ask for a waiting period to be waived. But say, for example, that you do do a mediation or a collaborative divorce. In those cases, a lot of times we negotiate and we reach an agreement, and that agreement gets drafted and reviewed and signed by both of the spouses. We will never have filed the divorce, we'll just go ahead and file that agreement with the complaint that formally starts the divorce and that motion asking the court to waive the 90 days.
That's kind of how it comes into play the most is in those situations. But in terms of a required period of legal separation, no, we don't have that in Connecticut. In fact, we have clients, obviously they're clients who get along well, but we have clients who stay living in the same house throughout the divorce and some of them even continue to for a period of time after the divorce. The law doesn't force you to live separately prior to divorce.
Heather Quick:
It's similar in Florida except there is no statute as far as [inaudible 00:18:55]. So really, if we would have to have everything [inaudible 00:19:01] that quickly. But if you did... Very, very big if. I don't want anybody here listening to be like, "Oh okay, yeah, I want to get this wrapped up in a month." It's possible, but it's not the norm. Even when everybody's agreed to things and we're ready to sign, it's usually going to take at least 45 days to make sure we have everything done.
Meghan Freed:
I think one of the things that is... When we're married to someone, most of us have a joint checking account, or at least we have a sense of what the other person earns or has in terms of assets and things like that. I think at first blush, people think, "Well, I kind of know everything I need to know in order to decide how we should resolve this," which tends to suggest the divorce can go quickly. But the reality is that many, many, many people, there are things that they don't really know much about, like how their stock options work, or the difference between retirement assets versus cash assets or, heck, how to handle the home, which serves as this repository of everything we're trying to deal with in a divorce that has emotional components, it has debt on it, if there's a mortgage, it has equity in it, and it's illiquid, so it's difficult to deal with. So there are things that you will want to learn more about as you're making decisions that may make sense to not have your first priority being having everything done absolutely as soon as possible.
Heather Quick:
I think you're right, because sometimes there's things that you don't even know. I did want to ask you this. This has been happening for a while in Florida, and I wonder if you've seen this in Connecticut. It's been a few years, but if you've ever gotten a traffic ticket, have you gotten a letter from lawyers? Like multiple letters from lawyers?
Meghan Freed:
I haven't gotten a traffic ticket, but before I sound like too much of a Pollyanna, it's because I very rarely drive.
Heather Quick:
But you've heard of that practice...
Meghan Freed:
I've heard of that.
Heather Quick:
Where the letters come in from the defense attorneys to help you with your traffic ticket. Well, in Florida, they can buy a list. So lawyers who want to send out an advertising letter to say, "Hey, somebody's filed a divorce against you. Call us to help you do that." I don't know if you've heard of any of that advertising, if you guys have that.
Meghan Freed:
I haven't heard of that.
Heather Quick:
It can be very dangerous, obviously, because within domestic situations many times you're not wanting your spouse to find out that way. What we always do is, and that really happens because somebody filed a divorce, but then they're like, "Well, I'm not going to serve them yet," or "I'm not going to report on it," because that draws our line of date of filing, so they think they're being sneaky, but it doesn't really start until the person is served. Then there are law firms that buy the list of what had been filed, and they send out blanket letters. We only do that when we're ready to serve them, so that some other law firm didn't notify them before they get served with papers.
Meghan Freed:
Yeah, that's actually what I was thinking about when you mentioned that, because I mean we go through... There are times where we wish we could send people things in the mail, but we wind up doing it via email or something like that. Even something as simple as sometimes there's a book we think a client would really enjoy or benefit from, and we always say, "Is it okay to send you a physical copy, or would you rather that... ?" There's a way to let them... To send it some to someone's Kindle or whatever. We go through machinations to avoid sending things to people's homes.
Heather Quick:
Because a lot of times they're still living together.
Meghan Freed:
Yeah.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. I know you mentioned the word, complaint, so I guess that's the actual asking the court for a divorce, that's what gets filed first in Connecticut?
Meghan Freed:
Right. Yeah.
Heather Quick:
Ours is just called a petition for dissolution.
Meghan Freed:
That's nicer.
Heather Quick:
It's a little bit nicer than complaint.
Meghan Freed:
Yeah.
Heather Quick:
They've done that in Florida, try to make it a little bit kinder wording, but you know have to respond to that. And what I think it helps people understand some of the timing, because in Florida your spouse has 20 days to respond, might as well be a month. So nothing can really happen until they respond. And then you have things... We have have a mandatory disclosure. So there's a lot of things you just have to provide with your taxes, your bank statement, an open book, provide what you've got. You have 45 days to provide that. And then every time you ask for something, somebody gets 30 days. Before you know it, six months have gone by.
Meghan Freed:
Tell me about it. It's so funny. Our mandatory disclosures, so there's a financial affidavit that's required even sooner. Basically, as soon as one side asks for the mandatory disclosures in production, it's reciprocal, so the other side is under the same timeline. It used to be 30 days, but there were so many continuances that they just changed it to 60. Still, and this is so frustrating for clients, I was just thinking about this this morning, actually, because one of the things that you see happen is when you have the diligent spouse who follow the rules, goes and gets the tax returns, it can be so frustrating that their spouse doesn't do their piece of it, and the court doesn't really... Takes a long time for the court to get actually mad and hold someone accountable or have any real repercussions.
One of the things we always say to clients is, first of all, it's one of those things that you both have access to. What really matters is that we have a tax return. That's what matters. Not who gave it to us. Let's get through this thing. What you really want is to be not married. But there are other kinds of documents that our person might not have access to. Let's use the example I used before, someone else's, their spouse's stock options and how that works at the company, information about that. I mean, we're really dependent on the other side, and we're waiting for court dates where we can bring it to the court's attention. Even though you file motions, and I'm not sure this is the same in Florida as in Connecticut, but we file motions, but they don't necessarily get dealt with by the court until there's a court date where something else is happening.
So really, it can be frustrating to deal with the reality of the fact that your divorce is in court like any other lawsuit, and it's designed for efficiency across every litigant not in your case. It stinks. I think the other thing, especially when it's ending a marriage, is that you're legally married in a church or at a party or by the beach or in the woods with friends and family, you pick this very personal way to get married. But when you get unmarried, you're really in the legal system with all sorts of other...
Heather Quick:
Yeah, with everything else.
Meghan Freed:
Like with a business doing a business. It's jarring, and isn't always the best mousetrap, which is why I think it makes sense when people, when they can, do pick things that keep them out of court.
Heather Quick:
Absolutely. And it is, because it's so procedural. It's not personal. It's procedural how the divorce gets done. We have only judges that do family. It's all [inaudible 00:27:13] section, and those judges really are so personable to the clients when we have to come in maybe and finalize the divorce. However, they're always still like, "That was it?" We've been coming [inaudible 00:27:24] and this is all I have to stay in front of the judge [inaudible 00:27:26]?"
Meghan Freed:
After all that.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. But it's like we had to get to this point to then allow that to happen. Also, when we talked about the providing documents and the emotions that cause when we've provided, we've done the right thing and we're waiting, it does, it lends itself also to a lot of mistrust, and a lot of "Well, what are they hiding?" versus they may not have the records, it's not a top priority, which I would fault the lawyer to not make, our case, the husband get the stuff, but often we just issue subpoenas. Because it's much more efficient than... Because they're going to have to subpoena them anyway, or they don't [inaudible 00:28:19] specific record. We try to think of ways to, "Hey, how do we get the information?" Just like you said, if our client has it, great, all we need is the information so that we know how to assess the financials. But a lot of times, there's just a lot of feeling attached to, "Well, I've done everything. Why do we have to take them to court to do what is their basic requirement?"
Meghan Freed:
There's a frustration that people aren't, I think the expression that we hear the most is, held accountable. Usually, when our clients really experience delay from the other side about just not turning things over, sometimes it's just the lawyer. Sometimes it's a disorganized law firm, and sometimes it really doesn't... We've had some instances where the spouse actually has given the documents to the lawyer and the lawyer hasn't gotten them to us. So that stinks for its own reasons. But when it's your spouse... Often our clients share this is exactly how he was when we were married. So how you do anything is how you do everything.
It's true, the focus on getting through it, getting the information, how we can get it efficiently in terms of time and money. And also, yeah, I mean, the court doesn't really take people to task. I think there's two lessons in that: one, just prepare for it so that you don't get disappointed by it. But really in Connecticut, it's just not a punitive process. The best thing that you can do is keep yourself focused on what comes after the divorce and not get wound up in the tit-for-tat minutia of the process of the divorce itself, because stuff will drive you crazy. You've got more important things to think about.
Heather Quick:
That is such good advice because sometimes we get caught up, not surprising, we can get a court date and we can hold them. We get motions to compel and hold them, when we know they're the only ones who can get things. Sometimes they're the only one who can get [inaudible 00:30:25]. And they're not doing what they're supposed to. And, unfortunately, we have some judges, boy, they will hold them accountable and take them to task and say, "No, get your attorney's fees for having to do this." But then we've got the others, and they're just so lack, in a way that I don't think they are, I think they're trying to give grace to the process and trying. They're giving them much more benefit of the doubt than we as the attorneys or their spouse does in an effort to not create more acrimony.
Meghan Freed:
Right.
Heather Quick:
But it's still, it's hard. I think the accountability, the word there, is a feeling that I know I've heard expressed so many times. Our clients feel like why aren't they being held accountable to do the same thing that I've done? We have to do a financial affidavit, as well, and we redo it a lot, because it is the [inaudible 00:31:23] of an alimony thing. Here in Florida, especially if you're seeking alimony, we're going to make sure that thing is buttoned up, it is correct. And when it needs to be updated, we do it. And so I know it's hard...
Meghan Freed:
Which is frequently in Connecticut, we have to do it a lot.
Heather Quick:
We certainly do, too. But at the end of the day, that's the point, though. It's like because we have our eye on the endgame, so we're going to do what needs to be done because we are playing, it's the marathon, and you got to keep your eye on finish line.
Well, we have to take another break, and we will be right back, and we're going to talk about, hey, what happens in mediation trial, and what to expect.
All right, we are going to talk now about mediation trial and expectations, because for the listeners we've been talking about, hey, how does the process go, the timeline, the things that maybe are frustrating about that process for our clients. This is where things are a little bit different from Florida to Connecticut, is in terms of mediation. And we touched on it a minute, but I think it's better, I'd love to know more about mediation in Connecticut, because nobody has to go if they don't want to, right?
Meghan Freed:
Right. There's a [inaudible 00:32:51] mediation. It's new. We actually had some of our court processes changed on the heels of COVID. It was coming anyway, but the Connecticut judicial branch kind of fast tracked it to help us, because some of it helped the issues that we had with not being able to go to court physically. So there is court staff that is available, and they've been available upon request. But now what's happening is courts are automatically getting scheduled for a new process, a new... It's not properly called a hearing, because there's no judge; I would call it like a meeting with the court, with folks we have called family relations officers. They're often trained social workers designed to help resolve things. So cases do get scheduled for an early resolution plan date. That's what that date's called. Honestly, Heather, it can be very effective in resolving some of the issues that are happening pendente lite.
For those of you not in total divorce world, that means while the divorce is pending, so between when you file and when you actually get a divorce, obviously stuff's happening. So these RPDs, which are essentially a type of mediation, help resolve those. But we usually don't have enough discovery, enough of those background documents, to really use those to resolve the case. They're a little too early. So what that means in Connecticut is there's the first kind of mediation that I talked about in the first segment, which is really a whole process. We don't even file the divorce. Two parties and a mediator, we're going to try and keep this whole thing out of court. Then there's these RPDs where we're trying to resolve little issues, and the court offers that. It's, in fact, scheduled by the court. In many cases, you have to do it, and it resolves issues that are happening along the way, but there's no required mediation before a dispositive hearing or an actual divorce trial.
Where we use mediation in those cases is the parties agree to go to a mediator to help them reach a decision in order to avoid a trial. Oftentimes, what we do in Connecticut is, a lot of those mediations we'll do with retired judges so that the parties... There's a certain weight to it, and the parties get a sense of how a former judge thinks that a judge might rule. And that tends to help people reach agreements and resolutions with some context. So that's it. But I got to tell you, I really wish it were mandatory in Connecticut, and I'm really interested in hearing what I'm missing. What are the downsides of it that you've experienced in Florida? Because from my perspective, having that shot at it, it's pretty great that that gets put into the process automatically.
Heather Quick:
And it really benefits the client. At the end of the day, it does. Even if... We represent women only, so I always think [inaudible 00:36:03] husband is being completely unreasonable and won't agree to anything. There's a lot... It's quite therapeutic in many ways. Because a lot of clients, in general, they just like, "I can't wait till the judge hears this," and "I can't wait till I tell the judge this." And having to educate and help them understand that's not going to make a difference in how they divide the assets. That really is going to carry less weight than you think, but it'll feel good to say it. So they have that opportunity in mediation to tell the mediator why they don't want to agree to this, why they don't like this, or how much they dislike their spouse, how sad they are.
It's a very therapeutic process in that part because, as we know, in a hearing, there's not a [inaudible 00:36:57]. Nobody's going to say, "Well, what do you think about that?" No. It's very procedural, as we talked about. Very [inaudible 00:37:03] and direct in what we're trying to accomplish. So we are required to go to mediation. So what we will argue about, and not to say that I am particularly argumentive, but I might be at times, because I don't... What we do, we really like mediation because it's going to be a very long day, usually. Sometimes we schedule [inaudible 00:37:28].
Meghan Freed:
Full day?
Heather Quick:
Full day.
Meghan Freed:
Wow.
Heather Quick:
Full day. The longest I ever had was 17 hours. It was like 1:00 AM, and we really only resolved half of it in that time. But you have a very expensive day, because the mediator's getting paid by the hour, and both lawyers are. Our approach is always, one, we're very prepared, as prepared as you would be for trial, and we want it settled. If there's a shot that it will settle, that's what we want. So we have lots of mediators, and that's all they do: mediation. There are a couple today if I called, they're not booking again until June. They're that [inaudible 00:38:11]. So you do have to think a little bit ahead of time, but you want one... You have your client in mind, and you know whether... It's not going to matter who it is, they know what we need to do, or they might need a softer touch, might need a harder touch.
By the time we're picking the mediator, we obviously know opposing counsel, and to have a good idea of who the husband is. So then that also plays a really important part. We need a mediator. Like our client, they know where best day/worst day is, we're going to get there. We need somebody who will be strong and effective on that side. So sometimes it does come down to who can we agree to on those issues, and additionally, many times, once mediation is set, then the court signs the order. So if you don't have all of the financial [inaudible 00:39:09].
Meghan Freed:
Oh, you have to have your ducks in a row.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. Because the court's not going to continue it, and your client doesn't really want to, but then they don't want to go and say we don't have information. So you strategically really need to know, sometimes you can schedule mediation too early. People aren't ready to settle, they don't have enough information, they're not at that place of acceptance, really, on the whole what this is happening. And sometimes I've been in cases where we've mediated two or three times, and the third time [inaudible 00:39:40].
Meghan Freed:
With the same mediator?
Heather Quick:
That depends. Sometimes yes,
Meghan Freed:
Because you're making progress, you just ran out of daylight.
Heather Quick:
Sometimes no, we need a fresh look. Maybe we're thinking somebody else might be better, might develop more rapport, might be able to move the parties closer together. So those are certainly things that we look at. That's the only downside is maybe if it was a little too early, the case really wasn't ripe to settle, people really didn't have a good sense of what there was. But overall, and at the end of the day, you know the other person's position, right?
Meghan Freed:
Right.
Heather Quick:
We'll book a whole day, but the court order states you have to be there minimum of two to four hours. But I've had people that they knew, and you could tell they knew. Their client was like, "I'm out." It's like three hours. How wasteful. You had the opportunity, and those [inaudible 00:40:41] are...
Meghan Freed:
They're wasteful.
Heather Quick:
Be really great, because they were being so greedy and unreasonable. I think that's the only time it doesn't settle mediation on either side. Really greedy, really unreasonable, and it's not going to go well for you in court, because you have no concept of what may be at risk and where you might end up. And some people just don't. They don't hear anything, or their attorney doesn't tell them. I don't know. I know that the mediator does that.
Meghan Freed:
Because they're telling them. Yeah.
Heather Quick:
And that's really helpful. Mediation also, I love the process, because we're our advocates for our client, not that we haven't completely, they know both sides and, hey, this is our exposure upside, downside, but they can hear from an impartial person, well what about this? And what if the judge decides this way? And even if, sometimes we'll get into a kind of counter-argument and say, "Well, yeah, I can see that side, but we're not conceding for our client," but the process allows them to see maybe where there is risk. Because sometimes that's the hardest part to see. The wonderful thing about mediation and the way I really... Especially when there's issues regarding the children, money is going to be just so straightforward. It just is. Not alimony, necessarily, but with the children, if a judge, if it goes to trial, they're just going to order things, they're just going to order it. Christmas break is going to be split, [inaudible 00:42:27].
Meghan Freed:
Oh, yeah. And everybody could hate it.
Heather Quick:
Exactly. So sometimes it's like, well, if they'll agree, you get every Christmas Eve, because that's the big family dinner that means so much to you, understand you've got something in mediation that you can't get from a judge, they're just not going to do it. They're so bound.
Meghan Freed:
No. And they don't have the same time to take to understand the idiosyncrasies or the special things about your family. And then the other thing is, because of the environment, because it's a traditional litigated environment with evidence and all of that, what the lawyer can put on is really confined. I think it really switches. The other thing I think that's so great about reaching agreements through mediation or otherwise, is that especially with something like parenting, it allows you to include in your agreement all sorts of things like, if it doesn't work, if I have a conflict during my parenting time, I'll call you and see if you want to have the kids instead of my getting a babysitter. A provision like that, a judge isn't going to order that provision if you're in a custody trial. They don't have time for that. It's just going to be like, this is the schedule, this is how we're doing it.
There's just a lot more room to create a really workable plan for your family or for any family when you have the time and space to really think about all of these permutations. And we've seen it a lot of times, because I know at your firm, like at our firm, we also do post-judgment, what happens when it doesn't work the way we intended? And so often that agreement will either have been ordered by a judge, so it doesn't have all of the details around the framework, or parties will have agreed to it on their own, and they don't know what they don't know. So they don't think, okay, what's Christmas morning mean? What time? Are we opening gifts? Or are we putting the kids in the car in jammies? How is that all going to work?
Heather Quick:
Yep, it's true. That's part of something that at the end of the day is so important in family law, is managing expectations. Because it's so easy to become frustrated and disappointed during the process, because this is your life, this is your family, and you don't want to be treated as the court [inaudible 00:44:54] like a number. And it's just one more disagreement. So I think that helping clients just understand this is the process, that your expectations are realistic, and you see the benefit of making agreement, and you're not giving up things. You're really actually maintaining more control [inaudible 00:45:20].
Meghan Freed:
Of course. We're also a trial firm, and we have had cases where there was no way to resolve it. And maybe sometimes we can take some things off the table, we can't resolve some things out of court, and we have to have judges decide other things. I don't know if this has been your experience, but we've had more trials in the last, I don't know, two, three years than we ever had. I think the level of acrimony in society is a little bit up, and we're seeing that impact how people's divorces are going. But sometimes the right answer is to try a case. You can't reach an acceptable, reasonable agreement.
But in the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority, there's a way to resolve that. And what that means is no matter how good your lawyer is, at a certain point, if you let a judge decide, you are rolling the dice. Your lawyers are really good negotiators, too, so you want to make sure you're taking advantage of both of those pieces. Like, Heather, you're an extremely experienced litigator. I'm guessing that you're an amazing advocate in a negotiation, as well. Not just because you know the litigation side, which is really important, in my opinion, but also because you've done this and you understand that you really just want the best outcome for your client, and the odds of getting that by reaching agreements is just higher.
Heather Quick:
I think you're right. Now, before we go, lastly, because it is about time to wrap up, Meghan, can you let our listeners know maybe what have you learned about divorce and representing women throughout your career that you could share with us?
Meghan Freed:
What a great question. Don't mistake the downsides of divorce and miss the opportunity to make it the thing that lets your life totally transform. Our most successful clients, like we've had people who have changed their careers and opened new businesses. We've had people who have left the country and lived abroad. We've had people do all of these amazing things. And in each of the cases that I'm thinking about right now, she was not the one who wanted the divorce. So don't miss the opportunity to let what the universe is giving you, take it in, and figure out what you really want to do with your life. You can create anything that you want from this. We'll get you through the divorce. That's what we're here for, but you get to live the life you want to live, and we get to be there with you and watch it.
Heather Quick:
Thank you so much, Meghan. This has been an absolute pleasure, and I really learned so much about you, your practice in Connecticut. But we've reached the end of our show, and you can find more out about Meghan and her law firm at freedmarcroft.com. It will also be available on our show notes. And just so thankful to have you here today, Meghan.
Meghan Freed:
Thank you, Heather. I really appreciate it. Thankful for you.
Heather Quick:
Thank you for joining me for this episode of Women Winning Divorce. If you or someone you know is looking for answers regarding divorce, reach out to us at Florida Women's Law Group.com, and also join the conversation on social @Women Winning Divorce. Women Winning Divorce is the place for an elevated conversation on how women can thrive during times of adversity in order to live their best life.
Speaker 4:
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