In today’s episode, Heather Quick, Owner and Attorney, at Florida Women’s Law Group, discusses letting go of the same and guilt of divorce. Heather talks about the difference between shame and guilt, how divorce causes you to feel that way and how to overcome those feelings.
"Women Winning Divorce" is a radio show and podcast hosted by Heather Quick, CEO and Owner of Florida Women's Law Group. Each week we focus on different aspects of family law to help guide women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges they are facing. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Join Heather each week as she discusses family law issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation and more. This program was created to provide tips and insight to women with family law issues. It is not intended to be legal advice because every situation is different. Visit us at https://www.womenwinningdivorce.com/ for more resources. Text us at 904-944-6800 for a copy of Heather's Top 5 Divorce Tips. If you have questions or a topic you would like Heather to cover, email us at marketing@4womenlaw.com
Women Winning Divorce
Episode 42
The Shame & Guilt of Divorce
Julie Morgan
Welcome to Women Winning Divorce with your host Heather Quick. Heather brings over 20 years of law experience that advocates and empowers women to achieve happier and healthier lives. Each week we provide knowledge and guidance on different aspects of family law to help lead women through the difficult and emotional legal challenges that they are facing. Listen in as she discusses issues including divorce, custody, alimony, paternity, narcissism, mediation, and other family law issues, to provide insight on the journey of women winning divorce.
Welcome to the show. I'm Julie Morgan and I'm joined by your host, Heather Quick.
Heather, how are you today?
Heather Quick
I am doing wonderful. How are you, Julie?
Julie Morgan
Oh, Heather, I'm hanging in there. No one wants to hear my complaints, so I'm not going to say anything. I know you would listen, but I'm not going to bore you.
Heather Quick
I would listen, but I'd also tell you to shake it off, girl.
Julie Morgan
Oh, you almost made me break out in song to Taylor Swift. You almost made me break out in song. Trust me, you don't want to hear my singing. Alrighty.
Heather Quick
Oh, I don't believe you. I do.
Julie Morgan
All right, so today's topic, letting go of the shame and guilt of divorce. Last week we talked about mental health struggles and how people are sharing more of their mental health struggles. But you know what? It still seems like in society today, divorce is still a bad thing.
Heather Quick
I think so in a lot of ways, especially when there's not really a bad guy, bad woman. There's not that big, glaring reason, like they're in jail, so that's why I divorced them, or something else. Like Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, who can blame her for heaven's sakes? The stuff he did, which also ties into mental health. However, I think that's when famous people talk about it and where they can tie it in. But I do think there is still a bit of guilt about divorce. I don't know how taboo it is, but I think that it's, on one hand, such a private thing, but it's obviously public, right?
Julie Morgan
Yeah.
Heather Quick
Because when you're not together, you're not together.
Julie Morgan
Why do you believe that people are hesitant to tell others, "Hey, I'm getting a divorce?" What is the reason?
Heather Quick
Probably just to be judged because everybody wants the juicy, "Well, what happened? What did he do? What did you do?" And maybe something it’s something you don't want to really share, which is good. You ought not just share the details, air your dirty laundry with your friends and stuff. But maybe there's not one thing. Or maybe it's so bad you don't want to talk about it, but either way, you feel you're going to be judged.
Julie Morgan
I think it's interesting, you said that people will ask about what happened and why is this happening. Can we make it a practice of not doing that? That may help someone to tell you what's going on in their life. Don't dig too deep, just let me tell what I want to tell you.
Heather Quick
People are so nosy. Come on, the moment you start dating somebody, somebody wants to know when you're getting married. You get married, they want to know when you're having a baby. People just assume so much and really just are nosy and want to know. And I speak for myself, I am so very curious. I always want to know a whole bunch of stuff. And not really to judge, just because I'm a curious person. I feel like, "Well, why isn't anybody asking this?" But I do restrain myself with somebody I don't know well. I'm like, "I'm not going to ask you that. I don't know you well enough."
Julie Morgan
But Heather, you have the tea on so much, so many people's lives, I tell you. So you do know a lot and you keep it in, which is wonderful. That's good. That's what you want in a lawyer and a friend.
Heather Quick
That's right. That's why I've got my companion Coco the chihuahua, so she can help me keep all the secrets.
Julie Morgan
Wait a minute, what happened to Bruiser?
Heather Quick
Well Bruiser's there too, but he's a little more social. Coco is very more reserved, so I can't share everything with the little friendly guy.
Julie Morgan
Okay, so Bruiser will tell your business. He'll bark all over the place, is that what you're telling me?
Heather Quick
That's right.
Julie Morgan
Gotcha. So-
Heather Quick
But-
Julie Morgan
Yeah, go ahead.
Heather Quick
I just think that it's something that on you do want to talk about, but nobody ever gets married wanting to get divorced or thinking they're going to get divorced. You do feel like you have failed. Well, yeah, the marriage failed. So did you fail? Well, you both failed, but that's okay. That's how we learn. But still, nobody wants that public, right?
Julie Morgan
Exactly. So people feel guilt and shame. Is there a difference between the two?
Heather Quick
Well, this is making me think of Brene Brown. That's the book you have to read. Guilt, you feel bad for something you did, or maybe breaking a moral or social code, or something you did. Like, "Hey, did that. I broke that vase. I feel guilty. I feel bad about that." But shame, you feel bad maybe because of something that was done to you, or a situation that you were in that you define as wrong or bad. Shame is more like, "I am bad," not, "I feel bad."
Julie Morgan
So shame sounds more unhealthy.
Heather Quick
Yes, it definitely is. We all have felt it. In the extreme it certainly can lead to depression and anxiety. And this will be a plug for anything that Brene Brown writes. Any of her talks or books are so very helpful, because we all experience these different emotions. I think we all do, I can only speak as my experience as a woman in different things, where I can identify with how she helps define that and understand it, so that you can move through it. But it will keep you stuck for sure in the past, because of the way you're feeling about yourself.
Julie Morgan
This is really about moving forward. When someone gets a divorce about the next step. In shame, that's not going to help you.
Heather Quick
It's not. I think we've talked about this before, I think you can choose to be a victim. I'm saying in a very general sense, because things happen all the time in all of our lives, and when we're talking specifically about divorce and a bad relationship, you have the option on how you want to view that for yourself. That life is happening to you or life is happening for you. That's my Tony Robbins quote for the day. I've got tons of other people's good quotes and information. But that is where you can get stuck and you might not be able to see it from another way if you're just feeling so shameful about the breakup of your marriage. And let's be real, that's you being a lot in your ego, as if it's all on you. Marriage takes two to work and takes two to break. So, feeling all of that guilt and shame on yourself, I don't think you're being fair to yourself.
Julie Morgan
And we're going to touch on this a little bit later, as far as women taking more of the blame or taking the lead as far as responsibility for the divorce. But even before we get to that part, they tend to feel more responsibility for the relationship as well.
Heather Quick
Yeah, which is a bunch of BS. That's ridiculous. You're both responsible. But when you do that, that can be you wanting to control it. And so, you want the relationship to be a certain way and it's not. Or you're wanting your husband to be something he's not, or yourself. When we compare or we look at social media and if you get into watching a lot of that, there can be so much comparison. Or, "This is the way our relationship should be. So and so got flowers, they get flowers all the time and they always go out on dates." So many times, by taking all that responsibility on, that's more than you really can bear because if you're trying to control the whole relationship, it's not really going to work very well because both of you have to participate.
Julie Morgan
And another thing is you also will start to take on the other person's failures as well.
Heather Quick
Yes, which is extremely unhealthy. You married this person, you each have to contribute something. At certain times in a marriage, one person may be bringing more to the table than another emotionally or spiritually, financially. And that should be kind of in a harmony. It goes back and forth, because that's what it is, a give and take. I do think at many times, women, we really harm ourselves by doing that. By trying to control it so much that it causes it to break, because nobody wants to be controlled.
Julie Morgan
Tell me this, do you think this is something that a mental health professional can help with?
Heather Quick
I'm sure. I don't know. I think the first step comes with really understanding how you are showing up in a relationship. And then, how you're showing up when it's deteriorating. It really is more about helping yourself. Especially if there's a lot of guilt and shame, which we are talking about, that comes from years ago, back. We've talked about the family of origin and the way you grew up. Those are just certain beliefs and things that maybe you saw in your parents' relationship, grandparents' relationship. That's where we learn all of those things.
The feeling of either guilt or shame and maybe which one might be more prevalent based on the way you grew up. If you haven't done anything to fix that, because we all have stuff from when we grew up, and everybody should work on themselves to improve that version of themselves in my opinion and experience, but I think that is absolutely work that can help you. If you're listening to this and you're already like, "Yeah, I feel so shameful or guilty because of the divorce," that is stuff you can work on and improve for yourself.
Julie Morgan
And that's why I brought that up as far as a mental health professional is concerned, because they may be able to help you talk through these things and get to the point. The point where you don't feel that shame and that guilt based on how you grew up.
Heather Quick
Absolutely. And you can see it for what it is and just circumstances and not you being a bad person.
Julie Morgan
Because if you're not seeing it, you have to possibly accept help in order to get to that point, but sometimes it's difficult to ask for help.
Heather Quick
Oh, it sure is. In this context, sometimes maybe you reach out, you're not sure who to reach out to. But when you have these feelings, absolutely, counselors can help you maybe really pinpoint the distinction between you feeling bad, versus something happened and you can choose how you want to now feel about it.
Julie Morgan
And you know what? I remember when you told me this, about the services that you offer, is that it's a very holistic approach. So there's someone in your office that can help you get to that place, as far as recommending people that you can go talk to or things that you can do in order to help you get to that place. And I can appreciate that.
Heather Quick
Absolutely. We definitely try to provide our clients with great referrals to the people who can best help them work through these things.
Julie Morgan
But you have to be at the point where you want to accept that help. Am I right?
Heather Quick
Yes, that's the key. We've talked about it many times before.
Julie Morgan
You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. We're going to take a quick break here. And when we return, we'll talk about how divorce causes shame and guilt. Stay with us.
Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group.
Heather, earlier we talked about the fact that women tend to feel more responsibility for the relationship, but this also comes into play when they decide to get a divorce as well. They take on more responsibility for the divorce as well.
Heather Quick
Many times, they do. That tends to be repeating a pattern. Maybe they took on more responsibility during the marriage, or about the family dynamics, or the relationship. That would then follow that they're going to take on a little bit more maybe of the blame. Particularly if they are the one initiating the divorce. Blame doesn't really help anyone, whether you're blaming yourself or someone else. I can see how that naturally follows in that situation.
Julie Morgan
It does make sense because the woman, she's probably thinking about how this is affecting the family overall, the kids, and what are they going to do. So I can definitely see that.
Heather Quick
True. Depending on the length of the marriage, it does, it's going to affect so many as aspects of your life and many other relationships; like the in-laws, whether it's the mother or father-in-law, sister-in-law, brother-in-law, cousins. A lot of times there's just a lot of connections and relationships tangential to the family that you're going to take some responsibility for, as well as the children. Also social relationships, that you have as a couple, or even the kids' parents, there's just so many. So that can be a lot, that you're taking the responsibility for, "How am I going to manage all of those?"
Julie Morgan
Where do you think that this comes from, this responsibility, this desire? Well, I'm not going to say the desire to have this responsibility, but it seems like it's just a natural thing for women. Am I right?
Heather Quick
I think so, but I think in a lot of ways that we're definitely very holistic and taking in all that and relationships and building that. We feel that sense of responsibility for that. I think that can be more pronounced in folks that like to control a lot of things. I don't mean that in a bad way at all, it is what it is.
Julie Morgan
Okay, Heather, you just described me. I like control. So yeah, that would be me.
Heather Quick
Well, let's not kid anybody, me too. So you have to learn... It's easy to see the traits that you have.
Julie Morgan
Yeah. What about shame, because they couldn't save the marriage, do you see that as well?
Heather Quick
I think that's a normal feeling, and that is one you definitely need to resolve within yourself and for counseling. Don't carry that through. Let's say, even if you are the one who's like, "Hey, I cheated. I don't like him. I did all these things," okay, well, you have to forgive yourself and move on, because that's not going to be a positive way to continue through your life. Yes, even if you did do a lot of things, it's just seeing it from an objective point of view and that's why counseling can help you forgive yourself, even if nobody else will. That's important.
Julie Morgan
But what if you didn't? What if you aren't the reason? What if you initiate the divorce, but you are not the cause? Why feel that shame? Why feel that guilt? That's kind of difficult to understand.
Heather Quick
Well, I can't tell you I understand that either. However, there's always two players, so I'm not buying that. Even if they were bad, but you put up with it for so long or whatever. If I think anyone going into a divorce with the idea that, "I did nothing to contribute to the downfall of this marriage," I just think you're fooling yourself. That's just for your own self-reflection, taking responsibility for what part you played, whatever that may be. It doesn't make anybody bad. I just think it makes you a healthier person moving forward and you're not adopting the role of a victim.
Julie Morgan
So it's two people in the marriage. And so therefore, they each played a part in the demise of the marriage.
Heather Quick
Well, we just all play a part in life and in things, and that's all. It's not to assign blame. This takes work. I'm not saying this is perfect in every situation, but I think a healthier way for both people is to look at, "How could I have shown up?" Or, "Would I have done anything differently or not?" It can be a little more objective and not so harsh on yourself or harsh against the other person. Not that you have to like your ex-husband. If you share children, that is helpful. I think that is where forgiveness is important, but for yourself. Forgiveness is really for yourself, to let go of anger and let go of blame. All that stuff goes together.
Maybe you have shame over being in a marriage where your husband cheated on you constantly. That would feel really bad, rightfully so. You just feel so worthless. That would just take a lot of work with a mental health professional because no, that's not your fault, but you have to work through building yourself back up with that and dealing with that.
Julie Morgan
And where do you believe the guilt comes from? Is it possibly disappointing other people?
Heather Quick
Oh, sure, and really even disappointing yourselves. More often, I think we break promises to ourselves more than anyone else, and we feel guilty about that. It wasn't what we dreamed it would be, because before your marriage, that person, you've never been married to them before, and you don't know. There's so much we don't know. There's all these books that say, "Oh, pick the right partner and do this and do that." Well, if you've never been married before, you don't really know.
Even if you have, you might pick the same kind of person. I think that most of us are doing the best that we can on any given day in trying to figure this stuff out. It's not like we all go to relationship college or anything and learn how to be great in a relationship. You figure it out as you go, based on what you've learned growing up and seen, and what you believe your husband or wife to be. Maybe they turned out to not be what you thought they were. Maybe you should not have married them. Okay, well you did, so maybe it's just that you two were just not right for one another.
Julie Morgan
Something you said about disappointing yourself, that could be guilt that is possibly the most difficult to get over, as opposed to disappointing other people, how much you've disappointed yourself.
Heather Quick
That's just tough. You're like, "Man, I told myself I would have done this. I wish I would've stood up for myself. I wish I would've done XYZ." So that can be difficult, just within your own struggle, which then makes sense. You're carrying around these feelings of shame and guilt that you've got to reconcile with yourself.
Julie Morgan
I was thinking, because you have to look at yourself in the mirror every single day. And so, that may be just the part of guilt that you just can't forgive.
Heather Quick
I think with work, you can.
Julie Morgan
With work, there goes that mental health professional thing again, that we've talked about so many times on this show. Shouldn't be ashamed to get help.
Heather Quick
Correct.
Julie Morgan
There could also be guilt if you stuck around for far too long.
Heather Quick
I hear that a lot. You think, "Oh, I should have left then." But of course, hindsight's 20/20 when we look back. Sometimes you are trying to give things another chance. Or you just aren't ready to make that big step just yet. You're just not ready. So, you did stay and maybe you stayed a little bit too long.
Julie Morgan
When someone comes into your office and they have all of this... Because we've talked about so many emotions on this show, it's weighing on them. It baffles me how you're able to get around all of that and get to the point, where they are able to start the paperwork and that type of thing. I just don't see it.
Heather Quick
Well, yeah, you have to direct the conversation, but also, it's just good listening, and helping come to a solution, because that's what we do. We solve problems. We look for solutions for women, so that they can feel like they're winning again.
Julie Morgan
I see what you did there, women winning divorce, look at you.
Heather Quick
I knew you'd like that.
Julie Morgan
So going back to something we talked about just a few minutes ago, as far as looking in the mirror, you may see failure in yourself, but sometimes this failure that you see isn't yours. Such as the husband doesn't love them enough. That's not you, that's them.
Heather Quick
Right. Things like that are very subjective and it's placing blame, he didn't love you enough. Or you weren't good enough. Or things that, at the end of the day, a lot of that is just your thoughts and it's so destructive to you, thinking like that.
Julie Morgan
They also think about, "Oh, if I would've lost weight, then everything would've been okay."
Heather Quick
Yes. Right. Exactly. "If I had lost weight, if I didn't look so old, take better care of myself, been a better mother, been a better cook." I don't think at the end of the day, those are the things, but I don't know. You have to forgive yourself and look at it that things do add up over time for both people and human beings are who they are.
Julie Morgan
But staying in that place of shame and guilt is not going to help you, it's not going to help the kids, it's not going to help your relationship going forward, that you're going to need in order to support the kids. None of that is going to help.
Heather Quick
That is true. That’s not going to help you move on with your life.
Julie Morgan
Again, we come to this point of mental health. I know I've already said it probably about five minutes ago, but having someone to work with you through these issues, it can really help. And it should not be looked at as if it is a taboo thing.
Heather Quick
Correct. Because certainly what I want for anybody feeling like this and going through this is to work through it and not to sit and dwell in these feelings that then become destructive.
Julie Morgan
Destructive. Oh, we are going to get into that. You're listening to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group. We're going to take a quick break here. And when we return, we're going to talk about how to overcome these feelings and not be destructive. Stay with us.
Welcome back to Women Winning Divorce with Heather Quick, owner and attorney of Florida Women's Law Group.
Heather, when we left off of that last segment... And just in case you missed it, you can go to our website, womenwinningdivorce.com, so you can download and listen to this episode. When we left off on that last segment, you mentioned about something about being destructive, how we need to let go of the shame and the guilt, because otherwise it could become destructive.
Heather Quick
Absolutely. And this is when you should break into song, Julie, the Let It Go song from Frozen, because that's what you have to do.
Julie Morgan
Okay. You know what? I have to say, I've never seen the movie.
Heather Quick
Well, you need to fix that by the next time we talk.
Julie Morgan
I do.
Heather Quick
Because it is a lovely movie. Don't even get me started on how wonderful it is and why. That will be for its own Disney episode.
Julie Morgan
Oh, you know we could do that because we're both Disney fans. We could definitely do one about that.
Heather Quick
We could.
Julie Morgan
So let it go, but isn't that easier said than done?
Heather Quick
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's why everybody says it. Of course, it's easier to say it than do it. But wow, the result... And I don't mean let it go and don't deal with it. Understand your feelings to the best you can, but wallowing in it and having a pity party isn't going to really help you or anybody around you.
Julie Morgan
You said the right thing, we're not talking about letting it go and not dealing with it, but you need to let it go and still deal with how you got there and then move on. Because so many times, we talk about letting it go, but that's letting it go and not dealing with it.
Heather Quick
Absolutely. Right. So don't let it go and then just stuff it in a drawer and not deal with it. It's saying, "Okay, this didn't work. I accept responsibility for these things. But guess what? I'm not accepting responsibility for that. I'm forgiving myself, everyone involved. Tomorrow's a new day." That's the short synopsis of where you want to be once you've dealt with therapy and worked through these issues.
Obviously, we always say go to therapy, but start exercising, get outside, sweat it out, and clear your brain, meditate. Spend some time that is just quiet. Before you know it, a lot of that stuff, it can begin to go away.
Julie Morgan
Take the time, because we don't take time for ourselves all the time. We talk about self care, and that is so important. And this is part of your self care.
Heather Quick
Absolutely. I think that can be just one of the healthiest things you can do, is what we talked about, acknowledging it, but then just growing from that. Don't let that happen for nothing. We all have things that happen to us in our life that kind of just suck. And you're like, "Man, that really was not pleasant and I would not like to go through that again." However, if there's a lesson to be learned, don't leave the lesson behind. How do you improve as a person from what you went through.
Julie Morgan
Yes, indeed. Because if you don't do that, you could repeat this process over and over again.
Heather Quick
Oh, you most definitely are repeating it over and over again. And you will make the exact same mistakes. You'll think they're different. You won't think of them that way in the moment, but they're going to be the exact same things. You're going to marry a man who does the exact same things. And you're going to say after the end of that marriage or relationship, "That kind of ended the same way the other one did. I wonder why that was." And then, by the third one, hopefully, you have some awakening, where you can see, "the common denominator was me. I keep having these same experiences, maybe I need to look back and pause as to how I'm showing up, because maybe I need to resolve some stuff from that first relationship, so that I can show up differently."
Julie Morgan
Or Heather, what if, and I've mentioned this before, I don't understand it, I know it happens, and no judging here, but what if you turn around and you marry the same person and then it ends up the same way? That's something else.
Heather Quick
I have another quote for that.
Julie Morgan
Okay. I'm listening.
Heather Quick
And that is, "Repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity," or something, I think that's Albert Einstein. I don't know where this stuff is coming from today, but it's just popping in.
Julie Morgan
I like it. Don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes
Heather Quick
None of us do, it happens. It happens in life. It happens in relationships with people, with your spouse, with your kids. So, don't lose the lesson in this divorce that might allow you that opportunity to pause, and maybe stop always being the martyr and blaming yourself for everything. Maybe stop taking responsibility for the way your husband acted, or taking responsibility for the way your children acted. On some hands, we have some responsibility for that. But at the end of the day, you need to allow people to be who they are and make their own mistakes. But you don't have to be responsible for that. You don't have to feel guilty for things that have passed. If you did something mean or spiteful to somebody, you could probably apologize or whatever, but you don't need to carry around the guilt.
Julie Morgan
And also, don't let other people make you feel guilty.
Heather Quick
Exactly. Well, now I will catch you on your words. Nobody can make you feel anyway. You are responsible for your own feelings.
Julie Morgan
Okay, Heather, where did that one come from?
Heather Quick
I don't know. I heard it from somewhere, I know that. But I do know you can't control other people, but you can control the way you respond. I work on that a lot because I try to control the way I respond and recognize that when people aren't doing things the way that I would like them to be done, or doing things in their life that I would rather them make different choices, I can't control that, but I can control how I'm going to react to that and I can control how I'm going to feel about certain things. That's just not without a lot of self-reflection, like I said, and work on that, and knowing that then that can allow me to be a better human and have more to offer other people if I don't get stuck in those kinds of patterns and traps.
Julie Morgan
Something else that I'm looking at, it talks about social media, and social media being a trigger. Oh, I can see it. I can see that. And so, if that's the case, avoid social media. Kind of difficult, but you can do it.
Heather Quick
Oh man, that's a whole other show. I just want you to know that stuff is so toxic and so addictive and dangerous. I went on TikTok the other day and I was quite entertained, and it's hard to put that down, it is. I really do a lot of time restrictions or social media detox because I see where it doesn't help me be my best self. I see things and I'm just like most other people, I'm sure other people may not take it that way, but I know it can suck you in. I've watched enough of the shows about it and read the literature, it's completely designed to do that. Particularly if you are dealing with these feelings about the divorce, that's the worst place to go.
Julie Morgan
You get on social media and at a certain point you're like, "Wait a minute, how long have I been sitting here, looking at these videos of people dancing?"
Heather Quick
And then, where I go is, I think I could do that. And Julie, I can't. I don't have any moves. Unless it's maybe two steps and a couple hand moves, but probably not.
Julie Morgan
Heather, believe it or not, I have no rhythm either. So you know what? I'm right there with you.
Heather Quick
But let me just tell you, I still send it to my daughter and say, "Do you think we could do this? Do you think you could teach this to me?" And most times she's like, "No, you cannot do that and you have no business doing that." I'm like, "Okay. All right."
Julie Morgan
Okay. I like your daughter's honesty. I like it.
Heather Quick
That hard truth, you got to have thick skin, but it's all right.
Julie Morgan
Social media, it could suck out so much time from your life and it can also make you have these negative thoughts.
Heather Quick
It really can. Because it's not real, it really isn't, and you begin comparing yourself, and then you start thinking badly about yourself, or in a totally unrealistic way about yourself. Like, "Oh, I can be doing this or not." It's no way to treat yourself, because it's harmful to you and it's not very kind to allow yourself to get into that spiral, which then brings back all these feelings related to the divorce.
Julie Morgan
But Heather, I do have to say that sometimes, and I think it's because I host this show, I will see on my feed, it's this one person, it's a lawyer giving advice about divorce. And I say, "Oh, this could be Heather. This could be Heather doing certain things. Oh my goodness." But there you go.
Heather Quick
I think it too Julie.
Julie Morgan
You know what? We could have a fun show about that. I think it would be fun.
Heather Quick
I'm going to need a lot of help with dancing, acting, whatever. I don't think I could do dancing divorces TikToks however.
Julie Morgan
We'll let you pick one. Pick one, and there you go.
Heather Quick
Okay.
Julie Morgan
But getting back to the shame and guilt. Okay, so you may feel that way, but also, you should feel courageous that you got to this point, that you are able to do the best thing for you.
Heather Quick
And that's not selfish. That's nothing to feel guilty about. I think that's, at the end of the day, what we're really trying to say about all of this, is not that you're wrong, but your feelings don't have to control you.
Julie Morgan
But sometimes, so many times, our feelings do control us. They control everything we do. They control how we react to certain people, how we react to whatever it is that they're doing. And so, that part is difficult, Heather. It really is.
Heather Quick
Well, I know. But just because it's difficult, doesn't mean we can't do it. I think that's why this is a great show, because we all have feelings. But maybe if you can recognize when, "I am acting on these feelings rather than thinking through this logically. I'm not a failure, and I'm not a bad person, and I need to snap out of it, and go do something positive rather than sit in these negative feelings."
Julie Morgan
Okay. So it sounds like you're telling me that we need to focus on the future.
Heather Quick
Yes, exactly.
Julie Morgan
Focus on making your life better.
Heather Quick
Yes.
Julie Morgan
And what are some of the ways that you think that we can do this? We mentioned them a little bit earlier, but how do you think that we can focus on the future? Focus on making our life better?
Heather Quick
I talked about it earlier, obviously there's therapy that looks like so many different types of things, and exercise is great, new hobbies. I'm a big proponent of getting out, moving your body, being outside in Florida, where it's sunny, because then you feel better when you're in the sun, at least that's my point of view. Begin to do things that eventually are going to affect your physiology, and that's going to help trigger the changes in your psychology.
Julie Morgan
Anything else you want to add, Heather?
Heather Quick
Well, I so appreciate this conversation. I think it's important sometimes just to talk about these difficult feelings and ways that maybe women listening to the show can improve their lives and not take on so much guilt and shame in regards to the divorce. And if you or someone is going through a divorce, wanting to get a divorce, reach out to us at Florida Women's Law Group, because we are here for you.
Julie Morgan
And I have to say that even if you're not someone that's going through a divorce, shows like this, to me, they help even people not going through this, because we could feel shame and guilt about many, many things.
Heather Quick
Indeed.
Julie Morgan
Well, Heather, it is always a pleasure.
Heather Quick
Oh, indeed. I love talking to you, Julie, even about these difficult topics. And we had at least a few things that we could laugh at ourselves about. And hopefully, this has helped some women listening.
Julie Morgan
Oh, I think it has. Well, Heather, I will see you next time.
Heather Quick
Thank you so much, Julie.
Julie Morgan
Thank you for listening to Women Winning Divorce. We hope you found information to help you navigate your divorce. If you like our show, please take the time to subscribe and provide a five star review. If you need more information, please visit our website at womenwinningdivorce.com, where you will find previous episodes and other helpful content. Join us next week as we continue our journey of women winning divorce.