In this episode, Heather Quick, attorney and owner of Florida Women’s Law Group, discusses building your dream life and divorce with expert leadership coach and mentor, Julie Cober. We are so honored to have Julie as our FIRST international guest!
Curious about how to design your divorce to align with your personal goals?
Navigating divorce can be daunting, but this episode explores strategic approaches to empower women through transformational experiences, focusing on achieving balance, setting long-term goals, and leveraging community support.
Ready to transform your divorce into an opportunity for personal empowerment and growth? Tune in now to discover valuable insights and strategies that can help you navigate divorce with confidence and clarity.
Join us on our podcast as we navigate the complexities of marriage, divorce, separation, and all related legal and emotional aspects, including adultery, alimony, child support, spousal support, timesharing, custody battles, and the financial impact of dissolution of marriage.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not an advertisement for legal services. The information provided on this podcast is not intended to be legal advice. You should not rely on what you hear on this podcast as legal advice. If you have a legal issue, please contact a lawyer. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are solely those of the individuals and do not represent the views or opinions of the firms or organizations with which they are affiliated or the views or opinions of this podcast’s advertisers. This podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Any editing, reproduction, or redistribution of this podcast for commercial use or monetary gain without the expressed, written consent of the podcast’s creator is prohibited.
Heather Quick: [00:00:00] Welcome to Women Winning Divorce. I am your host, Heather Quick. I am an attorney, entrepreneur, author, and founder of Florida Women's Law Group, the only divorce firm for women by women. I love thinking big, thinking outside the box, creating creative solutions for women, and empowering women to win in all aspects of their life.
Our approach at Florida Women's Law Group is to provide women with a strategy to not only achieve their objectives, but win at life. I believe that what may show up as adversity is simply an opportunity to change and improve your life. In each episode, I sit down with Innovative professionals and leaders who are focused on how you can be your best self before, during, and after divorce.
In these conversations, we are looking at how women can win at life. I have the unique opportunity to meet women when they are at a transition period of life. But that is only the beginning to becoming your best self and winning at life on your [00:01:00] terms with our guests We enjoy the opportunity to explore ways all women can win and enhance their life No matter where they are in their journey because divorce is just a point in life Not the end and not what defines you rather a catalyst for your growth
Welcome to this week's episode of Women Winning Divorce. I'm Heather Quick, owner and attorney at Florida Women's Law Group. Today, I'm joined by Julie Cober. Julie is CEO and founder of Free to Be Leadership Coaching Company. Julie works with women entrepreneurs and executives to achieve their goals both professionally and personally.
And Julie is our first international guest. She is based in Toronto, Canada.
Julie Cober: Welcome. Thank you. I didn't know I was the first international. I feel so privileged.
Heather Quick: Well, you should. We're going to highlight this episode, our first international episode for sure. Well, um, [00:02:00] well, Julie, welcome to the show. So happy to have you.
Our topic today is designing your dream divorce. So this is going to be great. I cannot wait to learn how to do that for our clients. Um, but tell us a little bit about how you, how you got where you
Julie Cober: are. Sure. So yeah, by the way, I love the title of this. I just read it right before I jumped on. I'm like, Oh, what a perfect, perfect title for this podcast.
Um, yeah, so I spent 28 years in corporate Canada, all my entire career in human resources. So I climbed that corporate ladder and, and, uh, 26 or five of the 28, I was in leadership roles. And when I left, when I made the decision to leave, uh, at the end of 2019, I was the chief human resource officer for the Canadian Red Cross.
So we, uh, we, uh, we, you know, hired 30, 35, 000 people a year, you know, disaster recovery, really high stress job. [00:03:00] Um, anyway, it, uh, yeah. So I, I decided, you know, the last. I don't know, eight, 10 years of my career. And I loved what I did for the majority of my career. I loved being in human resources, which I know is an anomaly.
Most people are like you did anyway. I loved, I loved creating culture. I loved, um, creating programs with my teams where employees could actually really love coming to work and making an impact and being, having meaningful work and all those things. And that just kind of went away at sort of the end back half of my career.
And I don't know what it was around 2015. Something changed. And I don't know if you felt it as well, but in our world in HR, we were like, what is going on? What is going on in these workplace cultures, right? What is going on? There was so much toxicity. There was things popping up like racism. And fighting on the shop [00:04:00] floor, things that you hadn't heard of for years.
I was like, what is happening? So we just ended up starting to spend a great deal of our time either fielding harassment complaints and you as an attorney, Heather would know that majority of harassment complaints are not legit. Right. From an, from an investigative perspective. Right. It's really two people that can't get along in the sandbox.
It's not true definition harassment, but still from my team, we have to do all the work we have to talk to the attorneys. We have to talk to all the people. Right. So we were doing a lot of that, which is very draining, very, very emotional, all the things. And then the other big piece of work we've ended up doing is terminating.
Right, because the volatility of the markets and if you work for a publicly traded company, right? Like, if the profitability isn't there out, go 1000 employees. Right. There was this rhythm of this and I was like, okay, the, the higher I got up my mountain, so to speak, [00:05:00] I got to the top of this mountain and said, you know what, I'm not loving the view up here because I was far, far away from being able to help women and help men and help impact them in their careers is what we would love to do.
So I, I decided at the end of 2019, I could, I think I can make a much bigger impact. And get back to my roots if I go out on my own, so I made the big, big decision. It took me probably 2 years to really get to the decision to leave and I started my own leadership company. And my own leadership coaching business.
So in the beginning, I started working with, uh, mainly executive women who were experiencing what I just described and wanting to either get out and start their own businesses like I did or get a new job, and that was wonderful. And it was one on one. And then I decided, you know what? I can't, I can't get to that many people this way.
So I need to scale. I want to scale. So I, we, um, I opened, uh, we've rebranded it from, [00:06:00] from the intro there. It's now called the legacy leadership academy for women and that's, we can provide group coaching. So now we can say the same message to many.
Heather Quick: Nice. Nice. Yeah. Well that's, that's such a great space and you know, I want, well, I'd love to know, 'cause Right, you started that right in 2019 and then of course, you know, four months later in 2020, I, you know, everybody changed and I imagine it was probably a good time to be in that space.
Yeah.
Julie Cober: Like when I left at the end of the year and then, you know, basically we know what happened, right? All hell broke loose. And to be honest with you, at first I was like, Oh no, like what have I done? Cause nobody knew is everybody just going to close their wallets and go to their basement, right? Or what's happened?
You know? So, right. Yes. Around May, June, it was started to pick up and people were like, Oh my gosh. You know, it really. Open [00:07:00] people's eyes to saying, you know what, I don't want to put up with this anymore. And in my space, I would get a call probably at least every other day from colleagues heads of HR all over North America, actually over the world, just sobbing.
Sobbing crying, they, they don't, you know, because they don't know what to do. Their CEOs don't know what to do. Like the world is in mayhem there. And, and then I started getting calls from headhunters. And finally one, one of the, my dear friends, I said, what is happening? He's like, Julie, they are quitting.
They are dropping like flies there. They're leaving. You're not getting any. And I'm like, well, I'm not going to go into that because I just left that. Right. There were a lot of phone calls of please help me transition to this. Please. I need to get, I, I need to get right out of the profession. I'm going to retire.
I want to start my own business, all kinds of things because coven really just. Highlighted what
Heather Quick: I think it was an impetus to a lot of change for people because there was a forced change on [00:08:00] so many people and then you got to see the opportunities that existed and maybe like to what you were saying, building up to when you left the where they were.
It's like, now that I have been sent home, or I am able to work remote, I don't want to go back. I don't want to be with those people. I don't like that environment. And I'm sure it. Because it was just such a time of change and, um. You know, opportunities for many people.
Julie Cober: Yeah. And where I live, we just got the staff the other day.
So I live north of Toronto. We now are number 1 in North America, number 1 in North America, worst city for traffic. We beat LA and New York now it's Toronto, LA and I forget the 3rd 1 and we're number 3 in the world. The world. So think of like the big cities in India or China or all that. We are number three in the [00:09:00] world.
So you're looking at probably a two to two and a half hour one way sitting in your car. So that's when they came out of COVID. They're like, I am not
Heather Quick: doing that. And I'm not doing that anymore. My life, I was missing half of my life.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Yeah. And so now businesses are really going, Oh gosh, okay, what are we going to do here?
Because they, you're right. They don't, they're not coming back.
Heather Quick: Right. Because there's so much in it, I think, you know, as a business owner, there has, we've had to shift in, in the way we see working and showing up. Is different and we have to adapt if we are going to retain and, and keep the best people because there's, there's options now.
Exactly. Exactly. That didn't used to exist because not everybody thought they could be that flexible.
Julie Cober: Exactly. And I think that COVID has proven to businesses you can be. And I think COVID has proven to businesses that, you know, it's time to look at how we can do this [00:10:00] differently. And I think this is going to be really great for women.
Because the biggest problem right now in North America is women, beautiful, um, really high achieving top talent, leaving corporate in droves because there's no programs for them to be able to be really good at their job and really good as a parent or really good in their life. Right. Especially as executives, if you're in the C suite as a woman, there is nothing out there right now.
That's allowing you to be a really great mom and a really great executive. So, it's brought that in because it's brought some balance.
Heather Quick: Yeah, I think you're right. It's true. And, um, it allows us as business owners to be more flexible because what we, what it showed us is for, at least for me, everybody's really very productive and almost more so.
And, um, and particularly women, I think that women are looking for flexibility and because they do want to do both. Right. It's not like they just want to [00:11:00] just work without a family and or just have a family without a career. They want both and they, but they've got to have that flexibility. So I think they
Julie Cober: want to work.
They want to be really good at what they do in their work. They also want to be really good at home,
Heather Quick: right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's so cool. As far as what you're doing to, you know, help women certainly get there. Um, okay. Now, I got to ask you this. Please mention, um, or, you know, we were going to ask when you were talking earlier about.
You know, when things started going bad or things in the workplace and, you know, what about like men can't behave in the workplace? We got to touch on this because we're, you know, women winning divorce before we design our divorce. I got to know about
Julie Cober: that. Yeah. So here's the, this was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
Like I said, we had been spending years in these, this, you know, harassment, termination, and, you know, the last 20% was all the other stuff. And then finally, um, in my [00:12:00] last j uh, job, I, I mean JOB job, um, I had to get personally involved. In within an 18 month period in 3, very high profile complaints, like, these are the kind that and you would know, Heather, um, we had to consult external attorneys.
We needed PR people like this. If this had gone awry or there was legitimacy to this and it got out all those things, this would be front page news in the Canadian newspapers. Let's put it that way. Okay. Wow. Like, and at one point, there was nobody on the executive team that understood the enormity of this, but me.
So, finally, I went to the CEO and he's like, okay, so we go through the whole process. I'm handling them myself. And all three of them, so all three of them are chiefs. All three of them are men and all three claims are legit in my whole career in [00:13:00] 28 years. I probably had maybe five or six legitimate harassment complaints, sexual harassment.
These were two, like normally it's not legit, right? From a perspective, all three of these were legit. And I thought to myself, once you go through the trauma and the turmoil of even investigating these, I said to my husband, I don't want to spend my days teaching men how to behave in the workplace, like this is ridiculous.
These are grown men in their fifties and this is how they're treating other humans and they think it's okay. Wow. And I'm like, nope, I'm out like this. And this is where the workplace had been going. And then I get these three, but it was the universe going, okay, Julie, this is not our path. Right. And I'm sure that's still happening to a degree.
I don't know that these men for whatever reason felt emboldened. It was, it was actually pretty shocking, but anyway, that's not what I want to do. I didn't sign up to cheat, teach grown men how to treat other [00:14:00] people.
Heather Quick: Right. Yeah. Good for you. the
Julie Cober: impact I want to make. Right? This is not the impact I want to make, so I decided to leave.
Heather Quick: Now, so with your leadership, coaching, and mentoring now that is, you know, allowing you the platform to really reach more people, how, how, and when does that, does this, does You know, intersect with like divorce and
Julie Cober: family law. Oh yeah. This was so interesting. So when you guys reached out to me, I was like, Oh man, I gotta, I can't wait to talk to these.
You know what, what we teach at the legacy leadership Academy is really, we work with really ambitious driven women, only women that, um, want to elevate to the version of themselves. That's living their best life on their own terms. That's really important in the work we do. So basically what we're doing is we're teaching them, we're designing, we're teaching them how to design their life.
So we get a lot of entrepreneurs that want to scale to six and [00:15:00] seven figures. So we're teaching them how to do that from a business perspective, you know, but the work that we do here applies to every aspect of your life because we teach you how to design what you want. So you can apply that to a relationship.
You can apply that to your health. You can apply that to your children. You can apply that to getting a divorce. It's the same work. And really what you're doing is you're designing the end state. We call them the end states. Like how do you want this divorce to go? Who do you want to be? How do you want to show up in this?
And we get the women we work with do that. And here's the thing, like coming out of corporate for 28 years, we, most women are cut off at the neck. They are in their head. They are analytical. They are very driven. They're all in the how. Not in the what and the why they're not in their bodies and feeling a lot of things, right?
So we, we balance both and say, okay, you have the ability to design this. However, you want any [00:16:00] aspect of your life. So they come in and they pick 1 area. I sometimes let them pick 2 from a goal perspective, like 1 professional and maybe 1 personal because what we teach them, they learn it and then it impacts every area of their life.
So they don't have to do it over and over and over again. Mm hmm. Yeah. So I don't know if that answered your question, but that's how it transitions. Divorce is all about leadership, right? If you want your job to go a certain way. And you want your children to be non impacted or have a certain experience through this.
That's going to take some solid leadership on your part. And that's going to take you and I've never been divorced. So just caveat, right? I know a lot of people that are, I would coach somebody that was going through a divorce to say, look, it's time to go within and decide how you want to lead from within through this.
And let's define what you want this divorce to look like. And how are you going to lead the pieces that you [00:17:00] can, because obviously in divorce, there's probably so many aspects that are completely out of your control. You can't control the spouse or the other person's attorney or all the things that go on, right?
Judges or whatever the process is, but you can yourself. So it's really about leading in your life and divorce is just one aspect of your life.
Heather Quick: Absolutely. And it's exactly what you said. Not that, you know, I think we all have a false belief, you know, ideology of how much control we really have, which we know we really don't over others or processes.
However, we absolutely have control how we respond and how we want to participate in the process. And I think that is a. A beautiful thing. Um, and I love that term. Like you be the leader, exhibit the leadership in your divorce because that it will have an impact. It may not change a lot of things. But the important things like how you process it, right, how you show up, how your children [00:18:00] respond and, you know, your future, I think it will pan out even if you don't see the immediate effects, right, on the day to day, but yet the long term benefit is absolutely there.
Oh, yeah. And
Julie Cober: think about, think about, so you design this the way you want it to go, and let's say it hits. 50 60 percent goes that way because there's going to be things that go awry, but you showed up in a certain way. You, you kept a promise to yourself, then you showed up a certain way. And that doesn't mean you're not going to have what we call them in my academy wall kicker days, like you're going to have bad days, right?
Where you want to kick the wall, like let's right. So, but when you're at the end of this and you've come out and you're going on with your life and you feel really great about how you showed up, think of what that does for your confidence to go out in the world now as a single person or whatnot, right?
You've kept promises to yourself all the way along. That's huge. That's integrity.
Heather Quick: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And those are sometimes the hardest [00:19:00] promises to keep the ones to ourselves. And so when we do it, it, it does have a very meaningful lasting impact, I think. Especially women,
Julie Cober: especially women.
We're not always on our own lists, right?
Heather Quick: Indeed. Indeed. Um, okay. So let's talk about, um, You mentioned, you know, when you talked about, you know, uh, you weren't going to be, um, the one, you know, teaching men how to behave in the workplace. Um, how do you think that carries over into divorce? And do you see that affects at all with any of your clients?
It's for how the men behave in a divorce.
Julie Cober: Yeah, I think it's the same thing. I think that it's not anything you have control over, right? To your, we really have very little control over anything except ourselves and how we respond. So how, again, how are you going to go into it? So I, one of the things that we work on a lot in my academy as well is, um, the laws of the universe.
Right. Balancing masculine and [00:20:00] feminine energy. What you put out, like the law of attraction tells us, right? The law of attraction says we're all energy. And we vibrate at a certain level, and whatever you put out comes back. So are you coming to the meetings, the mediations, the attorney, uh, meetings, all the things, angry, frustrated in a victim mode, you know, feeling like you're at the mercy of a circumstance.
Are you coming in? Oh, no. Okay. Hang on. I have control over me. Right? This is what I want to achieve from this meeting, but really with respect. Right. Like, how are you coming into these events through the divorce? Because however that you're coming in is what you're going to get back. Now you can come in with all of the higher vibrations and still have a really bad response back.
You can't, again, it doesn't happen overnight, but you will see a shift eventually so that it maybe becomes at least a little bit amicable [00:21:00] if it's not saying, right. And it's not anything I'm saying here is not easy. Believe me, like to come in, especially on such a large event. But again, it's a decision you're making a decision and you have choice.
So, I think knowing that you can't control that person over there, you can only control yourself. So, come in as the leader that you want to be leading within your life and think of things like for me, I would be thinking things like, okay, how, how do I want to least impact my children through this process?
Like for me, I would be putting them before me. And you know, I always, I often think of my brother, my brother is divorced. And I told, I told him years ago, you, you need to write a book on how to get divorced because him and my sister in law did exactly that. They never put their son in the middle of anything.
He's the most well adjusted young adult. Now they had difficulties [00:22:00] and, and, um, didn't agree on things, but they dealt with it behind the scenes. And my brother said to me, I told him I was coming on this podcast and he, and he, he said, I said, remind me like what did you do mentally when you went into that?
And so this is interesting 'cause he's the man on the side, right. But his right, his wife did the same thing. Mm-Hmm. . He said, I decided 'cause he didn't want this divorce. This was, this was on, not on his part. He said, I just decided that I was gonna pick my battles. And it had to be really big for me to go to war on something because I just didn't want to impact his son.
He didn't want to impact his son. And he said, I knew I couldn't control how his ex wife was going to act. So I just knew I could just control myself. And there was one thing that was contentious and he did kind of go to not war on it, but he did dig his heels in the rest. He said, you know what? It's not a big enough battle, but it, but it wasn't from a, I'm conceding place because that type of leadership, [00:23:00] right?
It was like, no, no, I don't care enough about that to fight it. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know if that answers your question, but I think that's it. Like you, again, you can't control these other people, so don't try.
Heather Quick: Right. Cause that's a lot of energy that will not produce you any results and really frustrate you and affect you.
I think mentally, um, by that, right? Yeah. I
Julie Cober: think, well, sorry. No, you go
Heather Quick: ahead. No, no, no. You go ahead. Cause that was really good. Tell me. Well, I was
Julie Cober: going to say that. I think, um, a thing that could help through this, it obviously is mindset, right? And so for the people that I know in my life that have been divorced, gone through divorce some more than once.
Um, so I always say to them when they come to me as a friend, I always say, like, what, what, where, what could you look at right now in your situation, even though it's horrific in some cases, right? Where's where, where, what [00:24:00] abundance can you see right now? And of course they're mothers, right? Like right away.
Yeah. I'm like, your children are external evidence that this was supposed to happen. This is part of your journey. You were supposed to be in this marriage. You were supposed to marry this other person. You were supposed to have these children or you wouldn't have. So where there's gotta be some things you can glommer onto that's abundant, right?
From your marriage. And of course that would be the big one. And I'm like, that's what you need to focus your time on and your energy. Is whatever came out of this, because, yes, you've made a huge decision in your life to no longer be married to this person, but it's not all bad. Right. Right. It's not. It helps you get through the divorce process.
I think. Mm hmm.
Heather Quick: I do. I think that is, I mean, all of those points are good, um, on, you know, picking, choosing what impact you wish to have, but then thinking [00:25:00] about the mindset and reminding yourself or, and if you've never been exposed to those kinds of thoughts, like a lot of people have it right. They haven't, no one's ever talked to them about.
You know, whatever kind of energy you put out and they don't understand that, um, which I'm taking notes because I'm like, this is what, you know, my clients do need because it makes a difference. If you can shift your focus, make a little bit of an adjustment and, and focus on abundance, focus on gratitude and.
Many, I, I've, I know I have had this conversation with many clients over the years in when they're dealing with a very difficult ex husband, husband, you know, when they're going through the divorce and they do have children. And I'm like, you know what? You got, you got those kids. And so at the very end of the day, as.
You know, as awful as you think he is, as, as just as difficult as this process is and he is, you got the best thing you could have [00:26:00] ever gotten from them. So maybe that's the cross you have to bear and you just need to accept he is who he is because you, you did, you do have the ultimate gift with your children.
And, you know, It at least allows you to center for a moment and think, yes, you
Julie Cober: know, because you're in the midst of the muck. Right. So like what goodness could, could have their hat. Like, and I always say to people, I know this is really hard, but at, you know, at one point in your life, you decided you loved this person and you wanted to spend the rest of your life with them.
Let's say that. Right. So go there. Like lots of people change. Things happen. And I always wonder, I always say to people too, whoever made up the rule that you have to be married for 60, 70, whatever years to the same person, like who decided that's the rule? I think a lot of women and men too have guilt around these marriages ending, right?
Well, maybe it's just run its course.
Heather Quick: Yeah, [00:27:00] I, I think when that started was like a really, really long time ago, people didn't live that long, right? And, um, we had a guest. I know my producer would remember, but it was fascinating because she was like, it wasn't meant to be forever. People died. And so you got remarried and, and, And people change.
It was just a really exactly and it was a way to look at it a little lighter as far as the stigma and that really they did get married for economics and to have children to help economically with what they were doing. Yeah. And, and if you know one died then okay well let's get another because this is part of how the Economics part of the marriage works.
And then I think I could be misstating. I'm going to have to go back and listen to this episode, but, um, and we'll refer to it in our show notes for sure. Oh, yeah. Episode 67, [00:28:00] uh, Judith Kalinsky was that guest. But then I think it was like she said, then the. Religion, you know, they got on top of it. So then all of a sudden it became a whole different focus of what marriage was.
And then of course, now we idealize it and we have all the media and movies. And, and I mean, I've been, I've been married for, you know, for many years, uh, 2023, I think this year, but. Regardless, but still like out of my fraction of my life, that's a really small amount of time. And, um, I do think that would help with people just like, you know, maybe our way we look at it is that it takes away some of that guilt and shame.
Just look at it from that perspective and be like, yes, you're human and these things happen and you
Julie Cober: made a huge decision. You made a huge. And the other thing I would say to women to going through, like back to the abundance mindset. Is really that in a [00:29:00] nutshell to me is something is happening. You have the perception that something's happening for you versus to you.
That's the different difference of a, like, a lack and limitation versus. Um, abundance, and this could be really critical for people going through divorce because it would be really easy to get into lack and limitation, right? It would be really easy to think you're a victim of these circumstances and especially when you have this volatility and emotion and all the things and maybe your ex is being a complete, you know what, all the things.
So. This what, how is this happening for you? Right? Because you're going to come out of the other side of this, a stronger human. There's no doubt about that with what you have to go through. Right? So what, why is that happening? Why is it happening now? Like, those are all just different perspectives where it's not like, It's like, no, this is going to make me stronger.
This is happening for me. I have to make all these decisions. And honestly, the work you guys are doing when I, when [00:30:00] you guys first reached out, I thought, oh, my gosh, what a service. Like, I hope people are taking you up left, right and center because this is such an important. Milestone and decision and time in someone's life.
You should not be going at this alone. There's no,
Heather Quick: not at all. And you know, um, in line with what you said, you know, on the, cause I'm a big believer and you know, things are happening for you, not to you. Um, and. There's also, it's like, listen, in, in, we all, right, all humans go through difficult periods and struggles and things.
And I think the key is also don't lose the lesson. Like it may not be present today, but it's, it's, it's going to show up for you. And if you're there, if you're ready to receive it, it's going to help you in the future. I do believe.
Julie Cober: Exactly. And it's one of the laws. It's the law of polarity. You cannot have light without dark.
You can't have up without [00:31:00] down. It's how the universe works. Right? So nobody ever said everything was always going to be blissful. So when you're in a low state or a contrast, like a divorce, there's what we all know from a success perspective, you do not learn anything from succeeding. You learn. And I don't even like the word failure because I don't believe in failure.
I think it's only feed there's feedback, but you learn when things don't go the way you want them to, you learn way more. You do your point. If you're open to receive it.
Heather Quick: Correct. Correct. You have to, it's always there. It's just whether or not you're open to it. I agree now. Okay. So that, that's, that's such good stuff.
And I think it really, hopefully for our listeners, you can hear this and just, you know, even if it's just a reframe on your situation that in and of itself, you just begin to think about it a little differently. It's going to make such a big difference, but okay. How, how do you keep focused on your career or running a business while you're going through a divorce?[00:32:00]
Julie Cober: Yeah, I mean, that is not easy for sure, right? Because there's this whole thing going on over here that wasn't before, but I think it comes back to designing it again. Like, what is it on this? Not only do you the end state, but the process up to the end state, right? So you do have a life. You're still have children that you're dealing with and yeah.
Newness going on, maybe they're going back and forth to different houses, or maybe every selling houses by all the things that you have to do. But you, you, I think you just have to almost for me, I think I would compartmentalize. And just say, okay, how, okay, this isn't, this business is not going to be impacted if I'm a solepreneur or an entrepreneur, right?
Or I have my career. You still have to work, right? You still have to go to work. You still have to either, whether it's your own, um, business or a JOB job, right? So, you know, how do you want that to look? Do you want to, you know. Have to drag yourself there. Do you [00:33:00] want that to be mixing in over there? Design it design.
How you're going to have these 2 either separate or or work together or how it's going to look for you and just show up every day practicing being that person being that person. Right? And then I would say to a big thing in there would be boundaries. Right. You would like, as a coach, I would be talking to them about boundaries.
So, you know, no, it's not okay for your ex husband to call you in the middle of the day because he wants to talk about, you know, the next attorney appointment or whatever, if you're at work, like sets the boundaries of when you can talk about this, when you can get together, when you can communicate, when you can't, cause you know, and what would he want as well?
Right. Like he should say the same thing so that they both honor each other. Like, I just don't think. That you cannot not go through this. It doesn't have to be turmoil. Correct. You don't want it to be. Right. So again, you, and you can't control that other person. So if they're acting like [00:34:00] this, you kind of have to deal with that, but hopefully you could get into a situation where you're both coming to the table with this is what's going to work for me.
And this is what's going to work for me. The bottom line is you can't stop working right now. Let me
Heather Quick: ask you this because I, you know, it's. You know, on one hand, you know, you're running your own business. You feel like, well, I work 24 seven, but then you work for an employer. Have you ever advised, you know, going in line with, you know, the, you know, designing this divorce, but have you ever advised, you know, because I think there could be an opportunity where you feel, or an.
a situation where you feel a little unsafe, like you don't really want to disclose your personal business to your bosses, your supervisors, but you need some time, right? You need a little more time in the mornings. Maybe you just need a different schedule because there have been so much change that you're recognizing.
I gotta, in order to focus on work, I just need to either leave a little early or come in early, come in late. You know, so that I have some [00:35:00] time to separate and, and how would you advise somebody because, you know, the things we're telling them, like, you know, maybe they do need to set some boundaries or now they're in charge of pickup where they weren't before or drop off, I'm just relating this to the children and they have, you know, they've got to come up with maybe a way for their job to help them.
Manage their, their new schedule.
Julie Cober: Yeah. So I think, you know, the first thing as an, I'm going to put my HR hat on. Okay. Good. I sure would. If somebody came, I would, I would, for sure, the first step would be to try to get them to, or facilitate a conversation with their direct boss. Now, if they have, you know, the boss from hell or whatever, that's not great.
You can always go to HR and, and we got tons of people come in and ask this, like, and I'll tell you, my experience is when you give an inch, they will give you a mile, [00:36:00] meaning accommodate them. They are going through a very difficult time right now. If you can, right? Like, there's certain roles that everybody had, like, you know, 1 of the organizations I work for, we, we managed outsourced call centers.
Well, those were shifts, but they can do, like, we let them work a little over time. So they could bank some time to take this time off over here and always a solution. Right? So, yeah, I mean, I know it's. Easy for me to say that. And not every organization is really conciliatory that way. So that would be decisions you'd have to make.
Right. Because I do think that it's, it's, it can be challenging, right? If you're in these new situations and you've got, you've got to pick up your kids and you've got to do these things. You can't just leave them there. Right. So, but so
Heather Quick: HR would be a good, it is a good place to start because theoretically, that is a safe.
Place where you should be able to talk to somebody and that even just that talk shouldn't really impact your [00:37:00] job
Julie Cober: The keywords should you're right. Yes. I mean if you were coming into my department, that is exactly what would happen I'm not gonna lie and say that that's the case everywhere.
Unfortunately Yeah, so I don't know if you could ever get into a situation where you make a change in your job, but that would be more change in the midst of change, which would be difficult. But yes, theoretically, if you're working for a great organization, yes, HR should be neutral and confidential. And accommodating where they can.
Heather Quick: Right. Because I do think, um, you know, there's going to be a lot of listeners and they're wondering, okay, well, to design my divorce, I need, you know, a little bit of extra time and. You know, with, you know, where I'm working, you know, how do I have that conversation? So I appreciate that because at least they know it should be and investigate because you know, the workplace you're in, right?
You, you hear through the grapevine, you can find out, is this going to be something
Julie Cober: I could help [00:38:00] facilitate? Like, if you're not comfortable speaking to your boss, they could help like set up a meeting. They could be there with you or whatever. I mean, Absolutely. I hate when I hear those stories because that's just a poor leader on the other side.
Right. And as a leadership coach, it kind of drives me nuts, but it happened all the time. Right. Right. They definitely should be able to help you. Now you have
Heather Quick: spoken about the four must do's. So I'd love if you, I think we've, we've kind of touched on a lot of it, but I, I'd like it condensed, maybe for our listeners, those, those four must do's.
Julie Cober: Yeah. So these are my must do's to succeed. This is what I talk about from a success perspective. So yeah, definitely apply this to your divorce, right. Or anything. The first one, the most successful people that I've ever worked with, and I've seen it out in the world to do these four things regularly. So the first one is, um, a balance between the masculine and feminine energy.
So what does that mean? Masculine energy, [00:39:00] this is not male or female, by the way, for that all I have, I have spent the majority of my career, very, very masculine and very, very masculine energy because masculine energy is action. That's to doing, that's getting the ball down the field and across the field line.
That's what we do as executives, right? Planning, strategic, all that, that's all masculine. So they get that. They get the do. This is all the things I have to do to get through my divorce, right? But who do you want to be and who do you need to be? The B is feminine energy. So that's somebody who is going to get the courage to go talk to HR, right?
And is going to maybe take get a little morning routine for 15 minutes where they meditate or they journal and just really set their day and the intention so that they don't fly off the handle in the midst of this divorce or whatever. Right? So feminine energy is, is. Visualization, when you're designing it in your [00:40:00] mind, um, journaling, meditating, really those sort of, I call them warm and fuzzy side of things, right?
And it's who you're being is the feminine energy. And what you're doing is the masculine energy. So the first must have is balance both. Now, most ambitious driven women, especially ones that are coming out of corporate, are way over in their masculine, almost 24 seven, right? They don't spend a lot of time really on themselves and journaling and all the things, right?
So success, you have both, you have a real great mix of both. You can get stuff done, but you also know who you want to show up and who you're going to be. The second one is. The most successful people, especially entrepreneurs or solo partners, they're committed to the longterm. They have shut the back door.
They're making this work no matter what. Right? So this is not a, Oh, I'll see how this goes and I'll try this entrepreneur thing or this network [00:41:00] marketing thing or whatever. And then if it doesn't work, I'll go back to a job. No, they're in it and they do what it takes. And in the short, so that's longterm, but in the short term, they take very inspired action.
And when I say inspired action, I mean, very effective action that moves the ball down the field, not passive action, where, you know, as an entrepreneur, there's four things that you need to be doing, right? You got to generate leads. You need to nurture your leads. You need to make offers to them. And when they become employees, you need to give them a really great customer service.
And that, that should be 80 percent of your day. But that, you know, all the other stuff falls into the 20%. So they get that, right? And then the last must is you have to have to, to succeed, especially as an entrepreneur, you need an abundant mindset because in my business, we call it your noisy roommate.
Okay. So that's the doubt and the limiting, and of course this would be loud for a woman going through divorce, right? Your dad. Your noise, your limiting beliefs, your fears, the what ifs, [00:42:00] right? How loud can she get in your head? And then she takes over, right? So when you want success, let's say a successful divorce, you've designed it on the front end and you've learned to manage your noisy roommate.
You've really learned to quiet her down and spend more time in your abundant mindset versus your lack and limitation. And that's like, that goes across the board in anything in success, right? We know this is what takes us out, especially if you're, you know, if you're scaling to six, seven, eight figures.
Like they know how to run a business. It's this that takes them out, right? Right. So it can be the same with divorce, right? This is where they'll go. I'm just going to concede. I can't do this anymore. Right? That's the noisy roommate going. I know I can't do this anymore. Yes, you can. You can do it if you surround yourself with the right support and you tap into others beliefs.
If you don't have it for yourself. Yeah. [00:43:00] Right. That's what we mean about that. So those are like the four musts to succeed.
Heather Quick: In those, yeah, those are great, and I, they do, they completely apply to, to the divorce situation, um, because it's such a major life event that, that does affect all areas of your life.
So really, you want to have a, your plan for how you're going to get through that without falling apart. Yeah, for sure. Um, now you do speak on the concept of every strategy works. It's just finding the one that's right for you. And I do think the same is true for divorce, you know, it's like in the right method, attorney strategy, et cetera, et cetera.
What is your advice for finding that strategy and finding what works for you? How do you figure that out?
Julie Cober: Well, yeah. So that again,
Heather Quick: less than like 20 years,
Julie Cober: right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the first thing is knowing they all work. So I would use health in this example with women that I work with, [00:44:00] like think of a weight loss strategy.
So lots of women can relate to this, right? So, um, why is it, we've got all these big vendors, right? Jenny Craig, weight, all the things, right? Billions and billions of dollars in that industry. Why is it? That I would say every one of those weight loss strategies were, well, the reason I'd say that is because we have external proof.
There's been a bazillion people used it and lost the weight. Yeah. The key is how come there's a certain percentage that keep it off and a certain percentage that gain it all back. It's not the weight loss strategy. We've proven that they both lost the weight. They, the strategy worked for both of them.
It's stuck on one and it didn't on another. And the reason why is because the one that it didn't stick with did nothing to change her identity. Hmm. It's identity work. And this is really important for women going through a divorce because you're going to be a married woman to a single woman. You are literally changing everything about you as your identity.
From a marriage [00:45:00] perspective, right? Yeah. Well, it's the same with lottery winners. So why is it that we hear people who win malts, especially the big power balls in the U S right? Like, and two years later, they're broke. They did nothing to change their wealth identity or consciousness is another way to say it.
So what identity do you want to have as a single woman, as a single mother? Because you're now changing, so the strategy of divorce works because 50 to 60% of the world are divorced and there's been lots of people who've gone through divorce successfully. Right. Whatever that, whatever that definition is for them, right.
With respect. Exactly. Yeah. Amicable. And they, they, because it's, especially if you have children, you're, you're, you're stuck with this person, right? They're, you're co-parenting now , right? You're gonna things when they're 25 or whatever the case like. So what identity it's an identity thing, right? So the strategy of divorce.
So [00:46:00] once you go, okay, this is who I want to be. Like again, this is how I'm designing. This is who I want to be as a single mother or a single woman. Don't this is who I want to be going through my divorce. Go find a strategy that matches that, right? So if you want to be conciliatory, maybe you need a certain type of mediation.
Maybe you need a certain attorney. Exactly. Right. Right. Like if, but if you want to go all guns a blazing, then make sure you have matching of that, but it's back to whatever you want because every strategy works and to have strategy stick the way you want it to go, change your identity to match it. Don't be the woman that's going to, I'm going to take him down if that's not what you want.
Right. Come at it in your, in your meetings with your attorneys and your mediations and all the, all, everything that has to happen as that woman with that identity. So hopefully that makes sense because it's so [00:47:00] many people blame the strategy, right? Or the attorney or the judge or the whatever, none of those are the issue if it didn't go the way you wanted it to go.
Right. Right. And I'm. And I feel, and, and not so much the output, but more how you feel through the process.
Heather Quick: Yeah. And I love that, you know, because I've, I've certainly talked about that before because it does your identity and that's, that can be so difficult for women because they've been the stay at home mom and now who are they going to be like, what, what does this look like?
Who am I? I have attached so much of who I am as this mom. Exactly. And it's like. Now it's there, but he may be with the kids 50 percent of the time. So who am I the other 50 percent of the time? And I know it's a struggle. So I do, I, you know, I know we've talked about that on the show, but I've never had anybody say, you know, you got to figure out what you [00:48:00] want that identity to be and, and, and got to design it.
And that is really brilliant. Okay. So then I've got to ask you this. Um, What if you, you don't want to change, but it's changing, right? It's happening. Like, you're like, I don't, in, in many, I think that. You know, probably both, both men and women, we represent women. There is certainly, I have met many women at the very beginning.
They're like, I don't want this. This is not my choice, but yes, it's happening to no fault. Like he's filed. I don't want this. And I know that that is a real struggle because they, they don't want to change their identity, but it is going to happen. Could you give me any, give our listeners some advice? Like, what do you do with that?
Julie Cober: I'm so glad you asked that because I was thinking this, um, what I would say to someone, if I was coaching them and that just what you just said, you have [00:49:00] not always been a wife in your life and you have not always been a mother. So I'm going to go a little woo woo here.
Heather Quick: Okay. I love it. Go for it.
Julie Cober: We are not our minds and we are not our bodies.
We have spirits. We all have souls, right? We came to this earth. We have a soul. We are a spiritual being in a human body with an intellectual mind, having a human experience. Okay, that's, that's, you know, you can believe it or not, whatever you believe to be true will be your truth. But the point is, is that you have not always been a mother and you have not always been a wife.
So what was your identity before all that happened? Like who was Heather or who was Julie? Like, it's not who we are. It's what we do. We're moms. We're wives. We're, we're executives. We're attorneys. It's who, it's what we do. It's not who we are, who, so I would ask them, who are you? And people, women come to me because I have lots of people in my practice too, that [00:50:00] are going through divorce, but also friends and they say, Julie, oh my God, I've just, I've lost myself.
I'm like, no, you haven't. She is in there. You just have to go find her, right? You have to find who you really are because all of these things that you put on here are labels that you have put, it is not your identity. Like if you ask me who am I, I would not tell you I'm a mother. A lot of women would go right away.
I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a, I'm a single mother, whatever. That's not who you are. Like, who's in your soul? What's your soul stand for? Right? How do you, you know, that's, that's where I would tell them to go, go find the original or the remembered Heather or Julie, because there is a version of you outside of all this.
Right. And that's something like for me, I would describe, I am a woman who understands [00:51:00] fully that her purpose on this world is to help other women lead. That's who I am. If you said to me, Julie, what's the one thing you could word to use your, to describe yourself, your identity. It's so easy for me, Heather.
It's a leader. And anyone who knows me will tell you if she was born a leader. I was born a leader. My mom will tell you, my dad, my brothers, I'm the youngest in my family. That is the gift that I have to bring to this world. So that's what I would say to your listeners is what is the gift that you have to bring to this world?
And part of it is motherhood for sure. I'm a mother, but it's not, you weren't always a mother, so you can't tell me that you didn't have a gift from zero to the time you became a mother or a wife, right? Right. They have lost their identity a bit because they identified mother and a wife. But I'll say to them, no, that's not your identity.
That's just part of who you are. There's another gift in there that you're meant to bring to the world. [00:52:00] And maybe that's the whole reason why you're going through this process is you're supposed to go find what that gift is. Oh,
Heather Quick: that's beautiful. That is really helpful. Thank you so much. I'm gonna, I'm gonna suggest, um, all of our clients, potential clients listen to this because so many find themselves in right what we were just discussing and you said it perfectly.
Maybe that is why you're going there so that you can go find out who you are. And what you were brought to, what gives you brought to bring
Julie Cober: and share delivering to the world. Right.
Heather Quick: Yeah. That's beautiful. That is so amazing. And I, I love that because as we know, women going through a divorce, they just struggle in so many different areas.
And that again goes to the abundance, to the mindset, like there is something that, you know, positive that's going to come out of this. Yeah. You just gotta look for it and be open to it. Um, but it'll be there
Julie Cober: [00:53:00] through it. There's a reason, there's a reason in everything. Everything. And it's so hard to see it when you're in it.
I get it. I know. If you know that and go, okay, I'm going to hold onto this and I'm, it's going to come to me. You'd be surprised actually how fast it goes when you get into
Heather Quick: that mindset. I believe you. I do. I do. Um, well, I can't believe our time has flown by so quickly. I think already. Wow. I know. I know.
What a great conversation. I feel inspired. And I took a bunch of notes while I was listening. It helps me listen when I write it down. It sticks with me. It was just wonderful. And, you know, but before we leave, though, I would, you've given us so much great, great tips and so much, um, advice, but if you could, um, you know, impart on our listeners, uh, you know, what you've learned about working with women, um, over your years that you could give to us and our listeners.
Julie Cober: Yeah, I mean, I would say the same women [00:54:00] and men, but I believe so strongly that when women support women, we move mountains. It's a cornerstone of my business. So get into a community. If you're going through this, whatever that is, like a Facebook group, you know, a program like Heather's running, like, do not go at this alone.
First of all, yeah. You're not alone. What's the percentage now, Heather, 60, 65 percent or, and that goes back to our whole conversation around, should we be married for so long, but there's a lot of people going through a version of what you're going through. So don't feel shame.
Heather Quick: Don't exactly
Julie Cober: try, try. I know this is easy for me to say, but try to not.
Make it so personal and so emotional. You're going to have emotions. I get that. But get into a group where people understand what you're going through and can support you and you can tap into their belief because you're going to get through this. And listen, you've made a huge, huge [00:55:00] life decision. Like one of the biggest, these would be in the top five, right?
Decisions you make in your life. So don't ever tell yourself you're not a decision maker because you just made a huge one and go through the process. And just like we said, know that this is happening for you. This is happening for you. So pull out your journal. I tell my clients, they can't come into my program without a journal and just write and write and write when you're feeling certain ways and what is supposed to be happening where the journey you're on.
This is part of the journey. And where the journey is going to go next will come. It will. I promise you.
Heather Quick: Absolutely. Wow. Thank you so much, Julie. Um, it's been a pleasure, such great discussion today. And, um, but lastly, where can our listeners find you for more information and resources?
Julie Cober: Yeah, sure. So you can always go to my website, which is julie cober.
com, um, from a social media [00:56:00] platform perspective. I'm on them all. I spend most of my time on LinkedIn. So that's you Instagram is at Mrs. Julie Cobra. And I'm on Facebook too, but that's regular Julie Cobra, but those are the two big ones I spend most of my time on. So. Yeah, check out anything in there.
Heather Quick: Well, we will definitely put the links in our show notes for our listeners and, and we, we thank you so much.
We have reached the end of our show today and, um, we're so appreciative of Julie for sharing her time and, um. you know, helping us talk about how to design your dream divorce and listeners. If you or someone, you know, is going through a divorce or is thinking about a divorce, please reach out to us at floridawomenslawgroup.
com. Or if you're looking for a community and support, join our Facebook group, women winning divorce, uh, links will be in the episode description. And as always, we would love your feedback [00:57:00] and reviews. If you enjoyed this show, thank you so much.
Heather Quick: Are you facing the challenges of divorce and feeling overwhelmed? Introducing Divorce 101, your essential online course designed to empower you through the divorce process. I'm Heather Quick, attorney and CEO at Florida Women's Law Group. Gain confidence and clarity with expert guidance on legalities, financial considerations, and your emotional well being.
We believe in empowering you to navigate this journey with strength and knowledge. Enroll in Divorce 101 today and take control of your future. As a valued podcast listener, you will get 100 off the course. So please see the show notes for the promo code And the link, you can also find out more at floridawomenslawgroup.
com or always call us at 904 567 0121. Divorce for women by women.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of Women Winning Divorce. My goal is to elevate your life and the way you are [00:58:00] thinking so that you are best equipped to win at life. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe so you automatically get my new shows every week. And I would love to hear from you personally.
Come join the conversation on social and join our Facebook group, Women Winning Divorce. We welcome your comments and suggestions. We want to bring you content that helps move your life forward. Women winning divorce is the place for an elevated conversation on how women can thrive during times of adversity in order to live their best life.